GRAVES Thomas Henry

[bedfordshire boy]

Thanks Selina, I was wondering what had happened to Thomas senior in Tasmania. I need to see if Photoshop can sharpen up the image a bit

David

[Linda2309]

Hi there...I am getting better slowly day by day but we are now six hours north of our home at Hubby's favourite fishing spot.  So I don't have access to any of my hard copy stuff until we return next Monday.

Very interesting about the brother's two estates, perhaps James didn't make much of a go at his side of the business in Melbourne and Thomas wiped him?

[Harpgirl]

Hi all,
I've been reading this thread 'word-for-word' - as I've come to the Graves/Hand family through Marianne Hand who married James Messenger [4th great grandparents].

What a great job you've all done! 

Nowhere in the family story was the surname for James M.'s wife [only Mary Anne], and I believe "by George, you've got it"! 

The little research I'd found on Thomas 'Henry' Graves in Australia, on Trove, found much of the same information about his finances - and being such a public and prominent figure during the remainder of his lifetime.

The buildings that he owned, his estate, was held in trust for 20yrs, and 'disposed of by auction'. The properties that were sold included; the United Service Hotel [King William St], and buildings at the corner of Waymouth-street and Light-square.
I haven't been able to source any further information of Messenger family members [nieces or nephews] being bequeathed in any way, to Thomas' fortune.

The search continues.

Thanks again,
Meg

[Linda2309]

Meg, are you related to the Messengers/Hands in any way?

[Linda2309]

With regard to the fortune - I think it went down the Graves side as my mother's parents were quite wealthy as were her Aunts back in England and my Mum and her brother (George) did inherit some when her Mother (Gertrude Margaret) died.

[Harpgirl]

I am Linda.

William Hand is my 5th Gr8 Grandfather 
G/G/G/G/Gmother - Marianne Hand (1790-1863) married to James Messenger (1782-1858)
G/G/G/Gfather - James Messenger (1814-1863) son of Marianne Hand & James Messenger
G/G/Gmother - Elizabeth "Eliza" Messenger (1849-1914) daughter of James Messenger & Louisa Boyd
G/Gfather - Nathaniel George Richardson (1874-1954) son of Eliza and Thomas Richardson
Grandfather - Thomas Nicholas Kemp Richardson (1911-1985) son of Nat & Edith Roberts
My Dad - John Charles Richardson (1942) son of Tom & Aileen Roberts

We also have a 'double-up' with Nathaniel George Richardson's sister, Rebecca Susanna Richardson [1842–1913] also marrying Eliza Messenger's brother, John Arthur Messenger [1839–1870].

I hope that helps.

Regards
Meg Richardson

[Linda2309]

Wow, I have dropped the ball with my Family History but must get back into it now I have some more info.  I am actually doing a class at U3A (University of the Third Age) here on the Gold Coast but am going to miss this month's class as we will be away.

We moved to Queensland 10 years ago after having lived all our lives in Adelaide  (My 90 yo Dad still lives there as does my sister).

My cousin in Sydney did most of the work on this tree but she stopped at Thomas Henry Graves believing him to be an orphan.  I may contact her once I have added the new info to my tree and make it public on Ancestry.com.

Thank you for your info - I'm sure it will help me once I get back to my tree.

[Selina]

Hi Meg,

So nice to see someone from the family.

This was such an interesting family and I enjoyed looking into it very much.  I must go back to the notes I made at the time and refresh myself!

Selina

[bedfordshire boy]

Perhaps a coincidence (in which I don't believe), perhaps not, but yesterday afternoon, French time so much later Australian time, someone called CockaleechieSoup (probably not his/her real name!) did a screen grab of posts 10-19 in this thread, and attached it to his/her Ancestry Tree called Richardson Roberts which seems to follow the same line of descent as Meg's!!! A compliment to all that it's used as a citation for someone's tree.  I've a tree on Ancestry named Graves/Hand Family Tree at http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/62182709/family?fpid=48082982991 summarising what we found on this thread. Whilst we didn't prove conclusively that the Hand brothers changed their names to Graves, I'm convinced!

If anyone who wants to look at it but can't get into Ancestry to view my tree just send me a Personal Message with your email and I'll send you an invitation. I'm tarting it up a bit at this very moment, having just got back from the school run. Another reason I put our findings on Ancestry was that none of the Messenger trees showed James Messenger's marriage (or at least if they did it was the wrong one!) nor Mary Ann's maiden name, Hand. As I put in an earlier post, a lot of Australian descendants have a lot to thank Selina for. And I think we've brought together two Australian families, the Messengers and the Graves/Hands.

This was definitely one of our most interesting queries, which took an unexpected deviation. Just shows what a pooling of minds can come up with. The tree description on Ancestry says "This tree came about as a result of a query on Rootschat - http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=663859.new#new. I'm just the oily rag pulling together information found by Selina, Rosie and Trish"

Just out of curiosity Meg, how did you find this thread?

David