GRAVES Thomas Henry

[bedfordshire boy]

The coincidences keep coming in

There's a tree on Ancestry which shows that James Graves, brother, went to Adelaide on the "Marion" arriving on 10 Feb 1849. I was iffy about this as whilst his age at 22 isn't far out, and his occupation was cordwainer - James Hand's in 1841 was shoemaker's apprentice - his birthplace is given as York, (later - but I think this is the transcriber's addition, which doesn't appear in the passenger list).

Iffy until this afternoon when I was tracing the children of Mary Ann (Hand) Messenger. She had a son James born 1814 in Croydon who married Louisa Boyd, and who should also be on the Marion going to Adelaide but
Messenger, James 34
                 Louisa 32     
                 James 12     
                 Louisa Chillman 10     
                 John 8     
                 Mary A. 6     
                 Arthur 4     
                 Eliza  inf    born at sea, Jan. 27 1849

If I'm right that James Graves was James Hand, and James Graves on the Marion was Thomas Graves' brother, then James Graves and James Messenger were first cousins. A coincidence that they travelled out to Adelaide on the same boat? I don't think so!

There are 9 trees on Ancestry with the Messenger family who emigrated on them - none of them know that Mary Ann was Mary Ann Hand - there are going to be a lot of Australians grateful to Selina for finding the detail in that 1809 marriage in Linton

David

[Selina]

It gets better and better!  Well done, good find that.

Selina

[rosie99]

I am loving reading this post, very well done to you all     You definitely deserve another trip to the pub David.   

Rosie

[Linda2309]

wow, amazing stuff.  I am still not well but wanted to "throw a spanner in the works".  I have a transcribed marriage certificate between Thomas Henry Graves and Elizabeth Grose where the declaration at the bottom for the groom was entered as Francis Henry Graves.  However it was Thomas Henry Graves in the top section.  Maybe he was a little tipsy on his wedding day and didn't know his own name???

[bedfordshire boy]

Thanks Linda. Might be a spanner, probably not. If it's a transcription it could be a transcription error, or a mistake by the person officiating. If he signed it Francis Henry Graves that's a slightly different matter, but it's pretty clear in subsequent records that he was Thomas, so I'm not getting excited about it.

It's equally pretty clear that there's not going to be a document evidencing a change of name for either Thomas or James. It's going to come down to circumstantial evidence, of which I think we've unearthed quite a lot, and the balance of probabilities.

Still working on them but it's slowing down now. I think I've been through most of the principal lines.

The probate calendar shows the following
Thomas Graves of Kent Town nr Adelaide South Australia died 10 Aug 1900. Probate Adelaide to William Shierlaw draper & John Henry Luxmoore agent. Sealed London. Resworn Oct 1902 Estate in England £3625-11-2

That's a substantial figure. Think I'll send off for the papers to see if that sheds any light. They'll take a few weeks to arrive as it's all done by snail mail. Would be nice if he made bequests to his Messenger nephews and nieces!

Davdi

[Selina]

Sorry you are still poorly Linda.

I agree with David that the Francis thing was just a blip.  Everything else far outweighs that.

I read somewhere (yes I didn't write down where!) that Thomas left a large amount of money in Australia let alone what is mentioned in the English probate.  Strangely when brother James Graves died his estate was only worth £74. 1s. 6d., although by the time his wife died her estate was £498. 14s. 1d.  You would have expected him to have been worth more somehow.

I don't expect that the dubious events of the past were passed down through the Graves family but I still wonder if any small clue came down through the Hand family, possibly to living members.

In a my own case my mother once told me that 'your father's family didn't  know who they were'.  It meant nothing to me at the time, long before I was interested in family history but subsequently it proved true even though I don't expect my father had any idea of what it referred to.

Selina

[bedfordshire boy]

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/35372118 says that the estate was valued at £107,000

There certainly appears to be a big difference in the value of the brothers' estates

[Selina]

Thanks David.  That was where I saw it.  Now it won't niggle at me anymore!

Another bit on Trove that rather amused me was that someone had tried to fiddle Thomas and his partner out of money!  Wonder what he thought about that - pigeons coming home to roost.

Selina

[Selina]

Male Convict Conduct Register entry for Thomas Hand (Senior).

http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON33-1-31,251,77,F,36

Difficult to read some of it.

Selina