GRAVES Thomas Henry

[Linda2309]

I have quite a lot of details for Thomas Henry GRAVES (my 2nd Great Grandfather) however I cannot confirm his birth date (other than from another persons tree on Ancestry).

The date is supposedly 10 March 1819 in Linton, Cambridgeshire, however he was orphaned very shortly after and I can not find any parents for him either.    He immigrated to Adelaide, Australia on the "Lady Bruce" arriving on 11 Nov 1846. 

If anyone has any information about him prior to his departure from the UK,  it would be greatly appreciated.  He married Elizabeth Grose in Adelaide on 28 Apr 1848 (I have their marriage certificate and there are no parents listed on it) and died on 10 Aug 1900.

Children = Walter, James, William, Sarah, Elizabeth, Blanche and Thomas

 

[bedfordshire boy]

Hi Linda

Welcome to Rootschat

Births weren't recorded until July 1837, so before then you're reliant on church records for baptisms, where the vicar occasionally added the birth date in the margin. But there are no baptisms of either a Thomas or a Henry Graves in Linton, or anywhere else in Cambs that I can see, in 1819. Nor are there any Graves burials in Linton after 1819 who might have been his parents.

I assume your birth date must have come from Australian records?

The only ray of sunshine is that a Sarah Graves married Thomas Hand in Linton on 29 Oct 1816, so there was at least one Graves in Linton at about the right time.

Clutching at straws time! Thomas and Sarah Hand baptised a son Thomas Hand on 10 Apr 1818, with a birth date shown of 10 Mar 1818. Your Thomas was also 10 Mar but a year later. Thomas and Sarah had two more children, Mary Ann and James, in Linton, in 1823 and 1824. The Ancestry tree shows that Thomas Henry had a brother James.......  I wonder! I hasten to add that I have no confidence in online trees, which should be used as a guide only.

A Hand family from Linton moved to Croydon, Surrey. When Thomas Henry Graves came back to England c1870, in the 1871 census he was living in...........Croydon. Coincidence?

David

I suppose what I'm suggesting is that Thomas Hand might have changed his name to his mother's maiden name, Graves. Proving it would be nigh on impossible. Disproving it would be easier!

[Linda2309]

Wow, thanks for your info, but as you say proving it would be another story.  They may have taken their Grandparents name and were brought up by them perhaps? Straw clutching
Thomas did have a brother, James, mentioned in Thomas's rather lengthy Obituary in a local South Australian paper at the time.  James worked in Henry's business on the Yarra River in Melbourne but I am yet to find any other details for him. Henry's birth date is also mentioned in that obituary but I still don't have anything to back it up.  In 1871 the family visited Croydon, UK, however they returned to Adelaide, Australia where he died on 10 Aug 1900.

[bedfordshire boy]

But why stay in Croydon when they went to England? Seems a long stay for a business trip, so did he have family there? ie the Hands?

Do you have the wording of the obituary which you could post?

I'm struggling with this one and need all the help I can get. It doesn't help that I can't see an obvious Thomas in 1841 when he should still have been in England.

If he had a younger brother James the story that he was orphaned very shortly after he was born doesn't hang together

David

[Linda2309]

Hi again - I will attempt to attach the Obituary - the original (pdf) is very hard to read and also too large apparently.  It has been transcripted (docx) and I then corrected some of the spelling and obvious errors comparing the two documents.   I can't upload the docx document, however I will attempt to convert it to txt and then upload it. 

Thank you so much for taking the time to look at this for me....Linda 

[bedfordshire boy]

Hi Linda

I've since found another obituary in the Advertiser at http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/printArticleJpg/36966582/3?print=n , which is of less use genealogically as it makes no mention of his brother.

I'm struggling! There doesn't seem to be full agreement in Australia about the brother, James, who one Ancestry tree shows to have been born in Yorkshire and married Mary Birkin in Adelaide. I'm not convinced that this is the right James, as yours appears to have lived in Melbourne.

Nor can I find an obvious Thomas Graves in the 1841 census, although there are are a couple of possibilities in the City of London where he was supposed to have been conducting business in Cheapside, but neither are living with parents so again not a lot of use.

David

[trish1120]

1871 Census
Elin Cottage,
Croydon, Surrey
RG10/483/31/55
James GRAVES, 45, Head, Mar Australian Merchant, born Linton, Cambrdigeshire
Emily, 28, Wife, Mar
Emily J, 3, Daug
James J, 2, Son
Emily and Children born Croydon Surrey
+ 2 Servants

1881 they are in Sussex and have another Son Albert G born c 1876 Croydon
1891 Emily is under SCHELL (Family above is Schell), Albert is under Schell
born c 1876 Thornton Heath, Surrey.

Havent found them in 1901 yet or James in 1891 (Overseas?)
Next Census James is down as born c 1846 Linton, age 65, but image is 85
Mar. 45 years, c 1866
I cant find a Marriage though on FreeBMD.
If we could James Fathers Name/occp would be on the M/C which could be a breathrough for you Linda.

Trish

1901 they are under GRACE in Preston, Sussex
I cant find James on 1851/1861 Census so looks like he was in Australia.

[trish1120]

Death Reg;
JAMES Graves, March 1921, Steyning, 2b 367, age 96 (Birth c 1825)
EMILY Graves, March 1923, Steyning, 2b 322, age 79 (Birth c 1844)

AH, Found the Marriage, James is down as JANE

Jane GRAVES, June 1865, Croydon, 2a 265
Emily BANCE on same page
+ William INGRAM/Mary Ann CHURCH

Entry on Anc is bad also, James is down as Tamar;
Marriage;
20 June 1865, St James, Croydon, Surrey
James GRAVES, 40, Bachelor, Merchant, Father THOMAS Graves, Butcher
Emily BANCE, 22, Spinster, Father GEORGE Bance, Upholsterer
Bothe signes
Witnesses George BANCE/Mary WAGNER

[bedfordshire boy]

Good find Trish. So that's why Thomas stayed in Croydon when he came back to England in 1869 - his brother was living there.

Did the father, Thomas the butcher, live in Croydon as well? At least James was consistent, giving Linton  as his birthplace.

In 1841 in Cambridge was Thomas Hand, 40, butcher. Just too many coincidences for me, the original Mr Cynical, to think the're just coincidences:
- the only Graves entry in Linton is the marriage of Sarah Graves to Thomas Hand in 1816
- they had a son Thomas Hand born 10 Mar 1818 in Linton. Thomas Graves' Australian records give his birth as 10 Mar 1819
- they had a son James Hand born 2 Nov 1824
- Thomas and Sarah Hand + 3 children were removed from Cambridge St Giles to Cambridge St Sepulchre on 10 Aug 1832
- a Hand family from Linton lived in Croydon

I have a gut feeling about this, but can't prove a thing. Yet. School run. Back later!

David

- and there's a death of Thomas Hand in Croydon in the Mar quarter 1850! I wonder if he was a butcher?!