Richard and Sarah Ann Bradshaw nee Atkinson

[CaroleW]

Other Bradshaw children also shown, so we assume both parents already died?

This is the full 1871 entry for Nether Hallam so we have all info upfront.  All b Sheffield except Harriet

William White 26
Sarah A White 26
John Bradshaw 12 nephew
Albert Bradshaw 20 possibly Sarah's brother
Harriet Bradshaw 19 sister in law b Loxley
RG10 Piece 4661 Folio 88 Page 23

So - if that John Bradshaw is thought to be the same one who married in 1881 - Sarah should have a brother called Richard

Have you checked Sarah on the 1851 census?

[CaroleW]

1851 shows Sarah Ann Bradshaws parents were John & Ann and she had no brother Richard.  1841 also shows no Richard born to John & Ann

Sorry - I am not convinced this 1871 entry is the John you are looking for

[Juneys1]

Firstly apologies that I didn't give all info initially. That's because I was looking for Johns parents and didn't think it necessary to fill background in. I am still learning, sorry you spent unnecessary time looking stuff up. Thank you for what you have now said. Tomorrow I will check out all you have found against what I already have and try to ascertain where I am with this. Thanks Juneys1

[CaroleW]

Until I saw the 1891 census for John - I had no way of knowing for certain where he was born so couldn't start to find him on earlier censuses.  I'm pretty certain he was illegitimate

I have been doing some more digging.  The Albert Bradshaw on the 1871 is Sarah's brother as per the 1851/61 census entries but Harriet does not appear with them in 1861 so may be a cousin or similar

These are all Sarah Ann Bradshaws siblings from 1841-1861 - all b Sheffield

Robert 1833
John 1834
Charles 1839
Sarah Ann 1845
Emily 1847
Albert 1850

Unfortunately - the marriage of Sarah to William White is not online so I can't check her fathers name to confirm I have the right family in 1841-1861

There are only 7 entries on the 1861 for a Richard Bradshaw and I've checked them all and occ does not tie in with shoe maker - none were in the Sheffield/Nether Hallam area

 

[Juneys1]

Thank you again CaroleW. We were surprised at the shoe dealer (maker you said, maker, did we misread it?) if he really was a shoemaker,that really doesn't fit does it. So you think John illegitimate because we can't find his birth? I think it seems like we're back almost to square one......
I am on holiday at present, and we may be out most of the day, but I will try to recap. Do you think I should search again for John Bradshaw birth?. Juneys1

[CaroleW]

I've searched for a birth for him - if he was definitely born Richmond then that would be the registration district but nothing shows.  I wasn't surprised as failure to register a birth only became a fineable offence in 1874/5 so there are lots of unregistered births prior to then.

No baptism showing online for him either.  The 1891 entry shows him as John W but the marriage reg is just John. He is not found on the 1861/71/81 censuses with the profile given on the 1891 which is what makes me suspect he is illegitimate

I checked for female Bradshaw marriages in the Richmond RD up to 1871 - in case his mother married soon after his birth - but nothing comes up

There is always the possibility that he wasn't actually born as Bradshaw but that his mother married a Bradshaw and he took his stepfathers surname.  However - there is no 1861/1871 entry in Yorkshire for a Richard Bradshaw with a son John unless the family moved out of Yorkshire

There is a Hull birth on freebmd for a John William Bradshaw in June qtr 1859 but in 1861 his father isn't Richard and he's a bricklayer

When you get back - have a look at the 1881 marriage cert and see if either of the witnesses was surname Bradshaw

Enjoy your holiday

[Juneys1]

Thanks for all this CaroleW. I have a copy of the certificate on my iPad here. I have tried copy and pasting it here, but it won't do it for some reason. The witnesses were John J Atkinson and what looks like Margaret J Foreman. The surname is hard to read. My problem at present present is that I have  nothing printed out with me so comparing various info is quite difficult. I don't get home til 17th, so I think it will mainly have to wait,malthough i cant leave it entirely alone! i will forward your comments on to my nephew in Australia who has been doing this and wider family research to see what he can now make of it all!
Thank you again Juneys1
 

[CaroleW]

No problem.  I'd hoped one of the witnesses may have been a Bradshaw but looks like we are back to square one.

Put this on the back burner for now and just enjoy the rest of your holiday