Flaherty / Roels

[majm]

Yes, I agree Dundee, but lets hope there's sufficient extant records being found here at RChat to help put her back into their family history ....   

I think her Uncle Tom, had a lot to answer for, putting an announcement like that in the newspapers ....  I know, it was 1850s, BUT .......  he apparently forgot to advise Dr Fullerton 

Oh well, that's me looking at it with 21st century eyes, instead of as a dis-interested family history buff.

Cheers,  JM

[Essie]

ROELS – LETHERIDGE
April 6, 1892, by the Rev Dr Lang, DD.,  Philip Jean, eldest son of Albert J ROELS, merchant, Rotterdam, to Mary Ann Amelia, eldest daughter of J Letheridge, master mariner. 
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/113761070  Evening News 27 Feb 1892.

Terrific find JM.

Proves our suspicions all along that Mary Ann Amelia eventually "married" Philip ROELS

Essie

[Bikegirl]

and have just found out Mary Ann Amelia 's mother Hannah Hanson King had a sister Jane who married a Charles FLOWERDAY !!!!!

seems Mary Ann used family members to cover her past !

[Jennaya]

Wow, its all coming together.

I guess we shouldn't be too hard on Mary Ann Amelia.

She marries against the wishes of her Guardian. The marriage breaks down (perhaps Uncle was right). There is a good chance that he said something along the lines of don't come crying back to me.  The only alternative in those times was to find someone else to care for her.

[Jennaya]

I wonder if Mary Ann Amelia had any children with William Jones. I searched BDM indexes, but there were a number of possibilities. Jones is a common name. LOL

[Bikegirl]

Umm  having trouble finding a death certificate for Mary Ann Amelia Clapham, Flowerday, Jones, Hanson, Roels. There is one for Mary A Roels died 1914 daughter of John & Jane at Granville which can't be our Mary daughter of George & Hannah. Looked at Trove -couldn't see anything. Any suggestions ?

[muss]

Hi
 May help http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:3083796&id=I612507491

Muss

[majm]

Umm  having trouble finding a death certificate for Mary Ann Amelia Clapham, Flowerday, Jones, Hanson, Roels. There is one for Mary A Roels died 1914 daughter of John & Jane at Granville which can't be our Mary daughter of George & Hannah. Looked at Trove -couldn't see anything. Any suggestions ?

Yes, I suspect that it is the correct one ....  the information for the names of the parents of any deceased person is provided to the funeral director when he is making the arrangements for the funeral.     It is likely then the funeral director is dealing with a grieving family, who are concerned with notifying neighbours, friends and of course relatives who may need to come some distance.   In 1914, the tyranny of distance included lack of easy access to telephones, cost of telegrams, public transport via horse drawn rather than motor car, etc.   The least important item may well have been the names of Mary Ann Amelia's late parents .... afterall back in 1852 her legal guardian was Thomas HANSON,  and then in 1862 (as reported in 1892) it seems her step father may have been recorded on a marriage cert as her father ....

I have vague recollection of Hannah as a given name being an alternative for Jane or vice versa.... However I think it is simply a case of a grieving family member (Blanche) perhaps being either misunderstood or simply not knowing of the George and Hannah connection to Mary Ann Amelia ....   

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

I think you should hasten slowly, and work back from one of the birth certs for a child of Mary Ann Amelia ROELS ...  The official transcription will have all the same info as on a real deal cert.   So it will give you first hand information likely provided by Mary A A ROELS about not just the birth being registered but about herself...   

"Births :
Full name, sex, date and place of birth
Mother's details including full name and maiden name, age, occupation, place of birth
Father's details including full name, age, occupation, place of birth
Date and place of parent's marriage
Previous children of the relationship"     

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh/bdm_rec.html

Likely births  for Mary A and Phillip J   ROELS/ROLLS/ROALES  (I may have missed some, sorry )
1860  Maria #182   (ROLLS on index)
1862 Ellen E  # 484
1864  Florence A  # 632 
1865 Blanche M ,  # 2434 
1868 Sydney FA #4446
1870 Philip Henry G # 5108 and 187002456 045/1870 (two reference numbers, so there was something causing concerns to Reg Gen)
1873 Laurence Peter McPherson  #3950
1878 Thomas (ROALES) #4647 (death 1878 #2864) 
1878 Jacoba #5045  (death 1878 #3048) 


If (as seems likely) it turns out that Hannah Sophia’s mum was the Mrs Roels of Camden St, NEWTOWN, and if you have lots of pennies …. Then if you want Hannah’s younger half siblings details : 
I think that if you were to order an official transcription of the 1878 Jacoba birth cert you would have quality info to follow up  for validating “known” info ….. a) when/where Mary Ann and Philip married, b) their ages in 1878, c) Dad’s  occupation  d) the family’s usual address e) midwife (could be a female family member, living nearby)  and of course f) details of Jacoba’s older siblings….   You should also get Mary Ann’s birth surname, and her place of birth (same for Philip) .... Of course, it depends on who was registering the births, and how clearly the Deputy registrar heard the info 

Cheers,  JM

Cheers,  JM