Flaherty / Roels

[majm]

So, following on


From the INDEXES online http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh.html

NSW BDM has the usual TWO entries for INDEX references baptisms from that era ….
1829, Line 9494 of Vol 1C, gives John JF PHILP , son of Alexander and Sophia and
1829, Line 638 of Vol 13,  also gives John JF PHILP , son of Alexander and Sophia

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTCD-XXP

I mentioned earlier about the Christ Church Cathedral’s registers being available online  ….

Click on this link :
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?board=165.0  then
click on this link:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?board=399.0  then
click on this link:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369703.0  then scroll further and find the heading “
Baptisms, Marriages, Burials, Christ Church Cathedral, Newcastle” and under that there’s lines of live links with their respective headings on the right….

Here’s those live links  and I think it would be sensible to look through the Family Register  sections too , not just the baptisms
Baptisms, Marriages, Burials, Christ Church Cathedral, Newcastle
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606066769147/ 1820 – 1899 Family Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605008173551/ 1826 – 1837 Baptisms, Marriages, Burials
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157604433014652/ 1837 – 1838 Baptisms, Marriages, Burials
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605132739200/ 1839 – 1861 Baptisms, Marriages, Burials
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605674610949/ 1856 – 1868 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605785759029/ 1869 – 1885 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605802132868/ 1885 – 1897 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606197590347/ 1899 – 1913 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605928662968/ 1913 – 1914 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606308436455/ 1914 – 1916 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606323070651/ 1916 – 1918 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606450662513/ 1918 – 1929 Marriage Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606952230042/ 1929 – 1936 Marriages Register



NSW BDM has the death registration for a John J F PHILP, registered in 1888 at Raymond Terrace, son of Alexander and Sophia (#9448)

May I suggest you consider ordering a transcription of that NSW 1888 registration as it may well show Hannah Sophia as his daughter 


Hannah’s Early Church Records (ECR) are also transcribed ONLINE and may well be imaged within those Christ Church Cathedral images linked above.
Ann Sophia PHILIP, daughter of John James Francis PHILIP and Mary Ann Amelia …. Born 22 Oct 1855, Christened 25 Nov 1855,
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTC3-6JL

The ECR is indexed at NSW BDM as Ann S PHILIP, dau of John J F and Mary AA.  It is referenced “V18553636 42B/1855”  so it is in Volume 42B, and line 3636. 


Cheers,  JM

[majm]

In Dec 1852 Thomas HANSON gave notice to clergymen not to perform a marriage ceremony of his niece Mary Ann Amelia CLAPHAM. (prior to her marriage to William JONES!)
http://www.jenwilletts.com/search.htm

I searched with just the surname CLAPHAM.


Essie

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/660258  Maitland Mercury  1 December 1852

“Notice to Clergymen of all Denominations.   Suspecting my Niece, Mary Ann Amelia CLAPHAM, is disposed to Get Married contrary to my wishes, she being under age; as her lawful Guardian, I hereby Caution Clergymen against performing the ceremony. 
Thomas HANSON,
Raymond Terrace, Nov 24, 1852

You needed to be 21 years of age and over to consent to your own marriage, otherwise you needed the consent of your legal guardian, as at law, you were an "infant" ie a minor, that is a person without sufficient "voice".        Now a days you need to be 18 years of age to give consent to your own marriage, otherwise you still need the consent of your legal guardian. 

Cheers,  JM

[Bikegirl]

Thanks so much JM . Have spoken to a few people from the Philps line and they agree that this might be the right track, So hopefully - fingers crossed,

About to go thru those links you sent me

[majm]

The Jones and Clapham marriage

Registration Number   Groom's Name    Bride's name   
V1853599 81-1853    William Jones    Mary A Clapham   QC

The ECR code of QC is for Sydney, Scots Church (Pitt Street) so it is likely that the marriage cert will have scant information …   because ......

The Rev James FULLERTON was at the Scots Church, Pitt St in 1853.  There was much ado in that era as he was considered to be conducting a “marriage shop”, with the numbers of marriages he conducted.  Also, he may not have been as diligent in checking the credentials of the bride and/or the groom 
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/fullerton-james-3582

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13646830  SMH 12 August 1887  Obit to Rev Fullerton

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS/2004-04/1082680521  Info about his Marriage Shop ACTIVITIES….   “His registers do not record parents’ names and only the barest of details” … 

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

It is in the newspapers, but umm…. I have not found it at NSW BDM online index   


 EDITED POST,

I am editing the post to show that although the marriage was announced in 1892 newspaper, the cutting itself shows that Dr Lang married the couple in 1862.   Many thanks to RChatter Dundee for sorting this out for me .... 

I have struck through 1892 thus 1892  and inserted 1862 thus 1862


ROELS – LETHBRIDGE
April 6, 1892, 1862 by the Rev Dr Lang, DD.,  Philip Jean, eldest son of Albert J ROELS, merchant, Rotterdam, to Mary Ann Amelia, eldest daughter of J Letheridge, master mariner. 
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/113761070  Evening News 27 Feb 1892.

Ummm.... now where's that earlier post with mention of a step relationship with the surname as a variation on Letheridge ...

Back shortly, 

Add, here it is :

An Obituary for Hannah King nee HANSEN mentions only one son (Thomas George CLAPHAM b. 1841 died in Sydney 1860 – stepson of Jeremiah LEITHBRIDGE) and a daughter Mrs MOUNTAIN (Hannah Elizabeth CLAPHAM b. 1844)
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=MEX19070523.2.14&srpos=6&e=-------10--1----0Letheridge--

THE FIRST WHITE WOMAN BORN IN THE COLONY.  (of New Zealand of course)

Marlborough Express, Volume XLI, Issue 120, 23 May 1907, Page 3

NZ BDM online index  Ref #1907/1833,  Hannah King LETHERIDGE, aged 91 years.   IF you are to consider buying the record,  ORDER their PRINT OUT, cheaper, but better still USUALLY HAS FAR MORE INFO than their real deal certs  ....

https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

Philip Jean ROELS, Master Mariner in the South Seas in the 1870s
http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/1876/12/media/038ros.jpg

There’s a chap, surname ROELS, likely reads “Philip J” for his given names, he was the Mate on the MAVIS, and he was aged 52 of the Netherlands…. Into Sydney 10 Jan 1881, 

There’s a Phillipe Jean ROELS, Master of the METARIS, in 1869
http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/  Enjoy, as there’s lots more, with images, freely available


And for earlier PHILP ancestors for Hannah Sophia FLAWDAY http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/10421/20041220-0000/www.firstfamilies2001.net.au/firstfamily9082.html?id=Philp1964356277

Cheers, JM

[Dundee]

It is in the newspapers, but umm…. I have not found it at NSW BDM online index   

ROELS – LETHBRIDGE
April 6, 1892, by the Rev Dr Lang, DD.,  Philip Jean, eldest son of Albert J ROELS, merchant, Rotterdam, to Mary Ann Amelia, eldest daughter of J Letheridge, master mariner. 
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/113761070  Evening News 27 Feb 1892.

Cheers,  JM

JM, the notice actually says "April 6, 1862, by the Rev Dr Lang"

Who would put that in the newspaper in 1892?  It was actually 1860 if the ROELS/HANSON marriage is the correct one.  Very odd.

Debra 

[majm]

I have been trying to figure out how a newspaper in Feb 1892 could tell the future ie a marriage for April 1892 .... I had basically decided that it was an announcement for a proposed marriage, with a different Dr Lang .... I will phone some elderly rellies who are trying to figure out a Rev Lang in 1892 for me   

http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/lang-john-dunmore-2326

Thanks Dundee     

I will try to edit that earlier post !


I agree, and my elderly rellies agree .... "very odd" 

Cheers,  JM

[Dundee]

"At the end of that time they returned to the Bay of Islands where they resided until the sacking of Kororareka by the natives in 1845, when with many others they returned to Sydney, taking their two children, a son and a daughter, with them."

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0w56/

It seems that naughty Mary Ann Amelia was written out of the family history.

Vessel: Thistle
Master: CLAPHAM
From Auckland to Port Jackson arriving 28 May 1845

Passengers:  Mrs CLAPHAM, 2 daughters & 1 son
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0w57/

...and of course all three were baptised together in 1847.

Debra