Church Records

[Celticcrafter]

CC - I'm sorry to bring you back to the prison registers, but it looks like Margaret's childhood was even more chaotic than her adulthood. Martha May has pages of convictions.(I basing this on the 1880 conviction with an address of 9 Chancery Lane where we know she was in 1879)  They do reveal that she is born 1847 in Limerick. (in some her next of kin is daughter Margaret Nolan) Her daughter Martha has a few pages of her own.
Martha Jnr (says she is born 1880 Skinners Alley - not entirely correct but not far off) names her next of kin as Martha DOODY. It seems Richard May has died and Martha Snr has married Patrick Doody in 1888. Reams more prison records under that name.
She has twin boys in 1887 with Patrick Doody, Christopher and Patrick.
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/81fc480289122
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/961eb50289123
Margaret May is Christopher's god mother.
Poor old Martha is still going strong in the 1911 census in Basin Street
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Usher_s_Quay/Basin_St__Lower/73847/
It's not the workhouse but seems to be an institution of some kind.
It's a pity they didn't ask the widows about their children's births. I suspect that Martha had many more children then the few (and few suspected) found so far and hasn't registered them.
There are two many possible scenarios, but the simplest one is that Martha had Margaret illegitimately - where is another question.
I think the Christina that you mention is Martha's brothers daughter, so Margaret's cousin.
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/ec5f9e0340177
I also found what appears to be Martha Griffin/May/Doody's sister being re baptised by her uncle Robert Neville at age 11 - haven't completely figured out what is going on there - but here it is if you want a look
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/3e1c840337440
  Be patient on Margaret's birth - it will surface eventually (fingers crossed) I have plenty I have been looking for for years now.

Your awesome really I don't know what else to say. 

I know about this Martha but did not put her with Margaret because I have her married to as you say Patrick Doody and her name is Griffin.   You would think it would be May  .  I'll get all this one day

I think you are right though it needed some new eyes and the expertise helps.  I have so much paperwork sometimes I don't know if I am coming or going plus I tend to jump around even though I have read you shouldn't do that.  I think that adds to my confusion..

I have the twins also... She probably had a rake of little ones as Margaret herself had 12. 

I really feel like you are on the right track.

I am going to take some time to read through your message again printout the records and try and get it all straight in my head. 

I just wanted to let you know I really appreciate all the help.

CC

[aghadowey]

In cases like these it can help to keep a timeline where you can add new details as you find them. I do them in a Word document.

[Celticcrafter]

In cases like these it can help to keep a timeline where you can add new details as you find them. I do them in a Word document.

Thank you for the tip, sounds like a good one

[Celticcrafter]

CC - I'm sorry to bring you back to the prison registers, but it looks like Margaret's childhood was even more chaotic than her adulthood. Martha May has pages of convictions.(I basing this on the 1880 conviction with an address of 9 Chancery Lane where we know she was in 1879)  They do reveal that she is born 1847 in Limerick. (in some her next of kin is daughter Margaret Nolan) Her daughter Martha has a few pages of her own.
Martha Jnr (says she is born 1880 Skinners Alley - not entirely correct but not far off) names her next of kin as Martha DOODY. It seems Richard May has died and Martha Snr has married Patrick Doody in 1888. Reams more prison records under that name.
She has twin boys in 1887 with Patrick Doody, Christopher and Patrick.
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/81fc480289122
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/961eb50289123
Margaret May is Christopher's god mother.
Poor old Martha is still going strong in the 1911 census in Basin Street
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Usher_s_Quay/Basin_St__Lower/73847/
It's not the workhouse but seems to be an institution of some kind.
It's a pity they didn't ask the widows about their children's births. I suspect that Martha had many more children then the few (and few suspected) found so far and hasn't registered them.
There are two many possible scenarios, but the simplest one is that Martha had Margaret illegitimately - where is another question.
I think the Christina that you mention is Martha's brothers daughter, so Margaret's cousin.
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/ec5f9e0340177
I also found what appears to be Martha Griffin/May/Doody's sister being re baptised by her uncle Robert Neville at age 11 - haven't completely figured out what is going on there - but here it is if you want a look
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/3e1c840337440
  Be patient on Margaret's birth - it will surface eventually (fingers crossed) I have plenty I have been looking for for years now.

UPDATE

I have no idea how any of my rellies survived at all..

The last record I found for Martha Snr was in 1907 she was 60 and in for Assault.   Daughter Martha like you said has a string of records.  I even found one record for Martha Snr and the line above was Margaret both did 7 days I think.....

Martha & Patrick had a daughter Christina Doody McGuiness never guess where I found her Plus Martha's hubby Patrick has a few records of his own.

I do think you are right about Martha and David being siblings as I found David's marriage to Mary Millen/ Maria Millar and Martha Griffin is a witness:
  http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/193c950096444
I don't know how to make the link work 
Anyway they have 3 more children and to check them out.

CC

[hasta]

The last record I found for Martha Snr was in 1907

I can see her up to 1913 and 1914 - like this one
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KM7M-8RR
(notice Margaret Nolan and the Basin Lane address from the 1911 census)
I think she must the Martha Doody died:
Oct - Dec 1921  Age: 71 
Birth Year: 1850  Dublin South 
Vol: 2  Pg: 435
Depending on the prison records she is born between 1842 and 1847 so she could have been 79 in 1921.

[dathai]

Martha Doody's name is not on the Glasnevin index for 1921 but there is a Margaret Nolan aged 72 in 1921???

[Celticcrafter]

The last record I found for Martha Snr was in 1907

I can see her up to 1913 and 1914 - like this one
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KM7M-8RR
(notice Margaret Nolan and the Basin Lane address from the 1911 census)
I think she must the Martha Doody died:
Oct - Dec 1921  Age: 71 
Birth Year: 1850  Dublin South 
Vol: 2  Pg: 435
Depending on the prison records she is born between 1842 and 1847 so she could have been 79 in 1921.

Hi Hasta & dathai,

I think I may have all Martha's records now a whopping 36.  Last one being yours Hasta, 1914 Residence Basin Lane.

I think you are probably right about when she died 1921.  I can hardly believe she lived that long

Dathai, Margaret Nolan, Martha's daughter died in 1947.  I have her records. Ta too Much.

It does look like Margaret lived with Martha some of the time.  She was married from number
10 Francis street.

I found another discrepancy in the records for Susan = Martha & Richard daughter.
This church record says she was born in 1873
 http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/7247810342445
The civil record says she was born in 1878
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=fsirelandcivregbirth&h=3038070&ti=5538&indiv=try&gss=pt&ssrc=pt_t38934399_p28017907570_kpidz0q3d28017907570z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid
This is Ancestry's birth and Baptism record
 http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=fsirelandbirth&ssrc=pt_t38934399_p28017907570_kpidz0q3d28017907570z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid_m1&srchb=r&gss=angs-d&rank=1&tid=38934399&pid=28017907570&gsfn=Susan&gsln=May&msbdy=1878&msbpn__ftp=5+Patrick+Street%2c+Dublin+South%2c+Ireland&cp=0&cpxt=0&msfng=Richard&msfns=May&msmng=Martha&msmns=Griffin&msbng0=David&msbns0=May&msbng1=Margaret&msbns1=May&msbng2=Martha&msbns2=May&msbng3=Mary+Anne&msbns3=May&msbng4=Christopher&msbns4=Doody&msbng5=Patrick&msbns5=Doody&pcat=BMD_BIRTH&fh=0&h=262885&recoff=5+6+25+26+37+38&ml_rpos=1
I am going to send to the GRO for her birth cert plus the other children's.

Martha's first child was born in 1867 and the twins were born in 1887.   That's 20 years so I think you are right there was probably more children.

I thought I had found one a Mary Anne, church register says she was a foundling.
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/b881570346958
but then I realized that Martha jr was born the same year as Mary Anne.

The prison record for Martha for 1880 has her with a Female child
http://search.findmypast.com/record?id=ire%2fprisr%2frs00018280%2f4492645%2f00365&parentid=ire%2fprisr%2frs00018280%2f4492645%2f00365%2f014&highlights=%22dublin%201880%20may%20martha%22
I wonder if that was Martha jr.

CC





CC

[hasta]

Hi CC.
I think you might have two little Susan May's there.
One born 1873 and the other in 1878.
The one with the birth date of Sept 1873 seems to have died Q2 1878 aged 6.
(Dublin South - Vol 2 Pg 899 ) ?
So the Q4 1878 Susan is possibly the next child born to Martha and Richard, rather than a really, really late registration.
Seems weird now, but they would often 'reuse' a name, when a child had died.

Not an expert on this but there was a charge for registration in the first place and a late registration would incur a fine. I have it in my notes somewhere, I'll have a look or perhaps someone has it off the top of their head ?
Do let us know if you get any new info from the certs you have ordered 
Pity no sign of Margaret's birth yet 

[Celticcrafter]

Hi CC.
I think you might have two little Susan May's there.
One born 1873 and the other in 1878.
The one with the birth date of Sept 1873 seems to have died Q2 1878 aged 6.
(Dublin South - Vol 2 Pg 899 ) ?
So the Q4 1878 Susan is possibly the next child born to Martha and Richard, rather than a really, really late registration.
Seems weird now, but they would often 'reuse' a name, when a child had died.

Not an expert on this but there was a charge for registration in the first place and a late registration would incur a fine. I have it in my notes somewhere, I'll have a look or perhaps someone has it off the top of their head ?
Do let us know if you get any new info from the certs you have ordered 
Pity no sign of Margaret's birth yet 
[/quote

Hi Hasta,  I got the attached records back from the GRO.
I don't think they tell me anything other then Eliza was probably  Richard & Martha's child even though they have the mother as Margaret.

If you look at Susan's record the name doesn't look like Susan and the occupation doesn't look like Locksmith or laborer as in the other certs.

Sorry the certs don't seem to have attached. I'll have to try something else.  Will get back to you.

CC