Church Records

[myluck!]

If you haven't already you come start a topic looking for help with this birth
Sometimes fresh eyes can see something or try somewhere different
On early adoptions, some families just took in children and didn't change names but some did and pretended the child was their own. They were loose arrangements.

[Celticcrafter]

Thank you Aghadowey,   just got your post myluck can you have a read of this an see what you think..Thanks,...CC

I think I am really stuck with this one.  The prison records put her in Dublin from 1886 and they list her birth place as Manchester. There's some 30 odd records. Her death certificate in 1947 has her age as 79.  So I am thinking that she was born around 1867/69.  Her marriage certificate has her fathers name as Richard May.
Church records from St Nicholas has her mother as a Martha Griffin.  My mom has always said her maiden name was Griffin and that she was born in Manchester.

The witness on Richard and Martha's marriage cert is a Christina Griffin.  My moms name is Christina.   So here is my theory (be happy to know what you think).

My Great Grandmother told my Nana that her real name was Griffin in turn my Nana told my mom that her mothers maiden name was Griffin but did not elaborate on how she was adopted and my mom was called after the witness Christina Griffin.  My mom is 87 she says she never knew her as a May.  I think it is also possible that this Christina was my great grandmothers mother and she died and that Martha was Christina's sister and she took the baby and raised her as her own. Of course I could be completely wrong about the whole thing but, it doesn't make for a bad tale..

Just for a time line for you I have been working with this info for about a year....

However, you could be right she could have been born anywhere. The only problem with my scenario above is the Manchester birth place, she definitely not in the English records as a May or a Griffin.   Which puts me back to what was her real name. 

Another scenario if she was born to Christina in England and Christina registered her with the fathers name.   I have just had a thought (dangerous thing) I wonder if I look for a Margaret born to a Christina Griffin in England what would I get.  I'll have to get check that right now. That didn't work the English church records for that time don't show the mothers maiden name.  So the search goes on.

She was a very troubled young women in and out of jail for many years.  Plus she lost 11 children, 6 I believe in child birth (have not been able to find them).  I contacted Glasnevin months ago and they said they would check the angel plot records for me but I have heard nothing yet.  I found 3 in the St Nicholas records on their website and the last one is my own Nana, who managed to survive to the age of 83, she was the best.

Hope this post makes sense.

CC

[hasta]

The witness on Richard and Martha's marriage cert is a Christina Griffin

Hi. I remember your Margaret 'May' from another thread
Where and when did Richard and Martha marry ? and have you found them on any census records ?

[Celticcrafter]

The witness on Richard and Martha's marriage cert is a Christina Griffin

Hi. I remember your Margaret 'May' from another thread
Where and when did Richard and Martha marry ? and have you found them on any census records ?

Hi Hasta,  yes you would have seen there names before from that thread I was able to find the prison records. Which took my a long way.


I can't find Richard or Martha on any census Irish or English. They were born around 1840's so must have died young. 

The other reason why I think they are
Margarets parents (or raised her) is that the 3 children I know of other then my Nana their Names are:

Joseph born Dublin 1890 Died 1891, Richard Born Dublin 1895 Died 1896 & Martha Born Dublin 1899 Died 1904,  my Nana was Margaret Born Dublin 1905 Died 1983.

Margaret May/Griffin /? married Joseph Nolan.

I imagine the first child was called after his father,  Richard after his grandfather, and Martha after her grandmother and Margaret my nana was called after her mother.

Interestingly enough these four children where the only ones to live long enough to be christened. The 6 others I have not been able to find...

I found Margaret Nolan aged 35 and Martha Nolan aged 1 in 1901 census living in Stephen street. 

Joseph was probably in prison (he was in prison a lot also but no as many times as Margaret lol). Margaret was in prison in 1911 so not on the 1911 census no Joseph either.   Joseph much have been in prison as well although I have no prison record his records stop in 1907.   

There is a Joseph Nolan on the 1911 census but they have him as single and a boot maker (that would not be him he had no trade).

CC

[aghadowey]

Margaret was in prison in 1911 so not on the 1911 census no Joseph either.
Should be in the census even if in prison (or especially if in prison since officials would have filled out the return)- will be listed by initials rather than name, thus, Margaret Nolan should be listed as M.N.

[Celticcrafter]

Margaret was in prison in 1911 so not on the 1911 census no Joseph either.
Should be in the census even if in prison (or especially if in prison since officials would have filled out the return)- will be listed by initials rather than name, thus, Margaret Nolan should be listed as M.N.

Wow awesome, found her straight away.  Mountjoy Prison.  Ta very much will look for Joseph now.

CC

[aghadowey]

At least there's one advantage of having ancestors with a criminal past 

[Celticcrafter]

At least there's one advantage of having ancestors with a criminal past 

I think I have found Joseph on the 1911 census.

I know Margaret senior is in jail.  Margaret Junior is at North Brunswick Street found her under Nolan, MK.  (well actually Dathai found her for me some time ago .  I see that there is a J.N. listed at North Brunswick Street.  So he wasn't in Jail and I think this was a workhouse.  Would that be right could a Father and daughter be at the same workhouse?  I don't know much about the workhouses I just assumed that the women would be separate from the men.

I have a prison record for Joseph in 1901 I just forgot But, looking back at the Nolan thread I had, Hasta had found Joseph on familysearch and that's how I knew he was in prison and not with Margaret and Martha but I had never printed off the record hence forgot where I got the information. 

These two were certainly something else.   

CC 

[Celticcrafter]

The witness on Richard and Martha's marriage cert is a Christina Griffin

Hi. I remember your Margaret 'May' from another thread
Where and when did Richard and Martha marry ? and have you found them on any census records ?

Hi Hasta,  as well you should remember that thread.  You gave me an invaluable piece of information about my Joseph and prison records.  I found more for him with the birth place of Gt Longford Street.

Thanks again,  you guys are really great on here I hope some day that I can help people the way y'all have helped me.

Regards CC