burial records in Walsall England

[carol8353]

Acorgen,

DIckensfan did know from the start her mother's DOB and that she was born in Walsall,going with those facts we soon established that Eileen W PInches was the only birth that fitted.

Then added to that fact that both the parents James and Gertrude died exactly when she said they did.Then we found Eileen W Pinches marriage in 1941 to an Edward J Haydon.......it just has to be correct.

Eileen remarried in USA and died in 2007,dob was as given 6th July 1921.

Also there had been twins born to the Pinches before Eileen who had died shortly after birth,all what the OP had been led to believe.It all fits..

Dickensfan,there are no immigration records as she most probably flew out to the USA.
Ships indexes mostly covered times before the 2nd world war when people didn't yet fly as a matter of course.Maybe she even met your dad over here during war time and flew back with him?

Carol

[acorngen]

Carol with all due respect the OP said she had her mothers birth cert and if she had her grandmothers maiden name would be on that however there is no mention of the maiden name therefore the full details have not been given and no one has to my knowledge asked what maiden name was given on the birth cert.

Another reading of the OP's posts throw up another anomaly and that is the fact the church placed her with another family.  If she had been orphaned then the state would have put her into a childrens home until such time as an adoption could be secured if at all.  During this time Barnado's and other charitable organisations provided these services.   

I would if this was my case go back to that birth certificate and see what the maiden name is given on there.  I understand based on what you have been told that the parentage thats been found is a possible.  I just think that people have run off to be helpful armed with half the facts and not really asked the one question that should have been asked at. 

Rob

[jim1]

The poster has said she has her mother's birthdate & her Grandparents names. That's not the same as having her birth cert. which is what we've been looking for.
We are up to speed.

[acorngen]

Which takes me back to my initial point all you have to go on is an oral history and the married surname.  We all know how DOB's can be shall we say massaged.  There are far to many questions left and other options that need exploring but I shall leave it at that

[weste]

If a church was involved what about the catholic childrens society I think it would be a few years after before formal adoption came in. Dickensfan, we tried the priest at the time and no records were there and the diocese in b'ham said were we sure they were christened there. It was a good few years ago and they were not really helpful. I do think the mount church is the more likely but there is another st marys round the time as previously mentioned. I'll try to gt to the archives as soon as I can.

[carol8353]

Carol with all due respect the OP said she had her mothers birth cert and if she had her grandmothers maiden name would be on that however there is no mention of the maiden name therefore the full details have not been given and no one has to my knowledge asked what maiden name was given on the birth cert.

Dickensfan said that she had ordered her mothers birth cert- but then as Liz pointed out to her,under what name? She said she'd put in a request with her name as Eileen Winifred Haydon and the date as 6th July 1921. See Liz's reply number 34 from yesterday.

That of course will not be found and she will get her money back.

She also had her mum's passport,under the name of Haydon.But then of course that would have been her legally married name by then.

She was 5 when her dad died but 14 when her mum died (both the Pinches deaths).
You would expect to have been working at that age back then ,so she wasn't a 'child' as such.

Carol

[dionysus]

Carol, there is no need to defend what you (mainly) have done.  We are all aware of the potential pitfalls in this.  All we have achieved is to set up an hypothesis for testing and you have set out a logical step-by-step approach to doing that.  That's about all we can do for now.

Dickensfan, it will be interesting to see how you get on, but best wishes, anyway.

Dion.

[lizdb]

I think we are all aware, acorngen, then the Pinches course of events needs more work ( in the form of obtaining some certs) to back it up - or to squash it.
But looking at the evidence so far, it ticks nearly every box. Therefore, in tbe absence of any other leads (do you have any?) it is worth pursuing to rule it in or out.
From the details originally given by the op, ie an Eileen Winifred Hàydon, born 6 July 1921, parents James and Gertrude dying in 1925 and 1936, Etc, it soon became apparent there was something not straightforward about this - there were no people of those names and the right ages around. Research founnd the Pinches family, and they fitted all the criteria to a tee. Of course, you are right, it is possible there is a completely different scenario - but research has not turned up any evidence to suggest anything else at the moment.
Given the number of things that tie up with the Pinches, it would be a phenomenal number of coincidences if it turned out not to be that, but, if that does prove to the case, then it will be back to the drawing board to consider other possible scenarios - but as to what they could be we can only guess, as there are no other leads.
If there were other leads, then of course they would be being followed up too. But it would be rather silly not to follow this very very strong lead up, just because it might not be right! That is the whole idea - to see if it is! If we just put it on tbe back burner, ignoring tbe compelling evidence found thus far, and hunted around for any different leads, we could be wasting a lot of time and effort if this was the correct series of events all along! Especially, as already said, as yet no other 'ideas'or theories HAVE produced any leads.

There is a lot on this thread for  Dickensfan to take in, and think about. Lets leave her to do just that. We are here if she wishes to ask anything, and will willingly help where we can.

(Red writing, Dionysis, meaning you are posting the same time  - I'll post anyway, though you have put it a LOT better than I did!)

[dickensfan56]

You are correct that I do not have a birth certificate.  I have, however, ordered a copy of mom's passport.  Do any of you know what information would have appeared on a British passport in the 40's?  If it included a maiden name and if mom told the truth (if this is her), that could confirm our suspicions.  It is also possible that it would have her actual address.  If so, we might be able to confirm where she lived with James Haydon.  I will go ahead and order birth certificates on the Pinches.  Mom never said anything about her or her mother working.  She used to go into great detail about all the things they did together during the day.  I realize that could all be false but it would seem to be an odd thing to bother fabricating.  Again, thank you everyone for all you're doing to put this puzzle together.