William John Gilbert: his siblings and his children

[Gilby]

With the census etc back online the search continues.  I was looking through the Jonathan Gilberts of Lurgan area and I came across what appears to have been a brother and sister getting married to a sister and brother on the same day in the same church.  Does that seem plausible?

Jane Gilbert (daughter of Jonathan Gilbert) m. William Kenning (son of William Kenning)
22 July 1859, Aghalee, Antrim
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGC5-1DS

Jonathan Gilbert (son of Jonathan Gilbert) m. Eliza Kenning (daughter of William Kenning)
22 July 1859, Aghalee, Antrim
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGC5-1DH

Has anyone heard of a double marriage like this?  I have come across 3 sisters (Youngs) marrying three brothers (Killens) before, but they didn't all get married at the same time.   

[Gilby]

Following up on Eliza Gilbert, probably the same Eliza as in my previous post, I've got this section from a Will (abstract/letters of administration?):

"...Eliza Gilbert late of Ryefield Aghadrumglassny Aghalee County Antrim Widow who died 8 February 1891 at same place (left unadministered by William Kenning one of the Executors) were granted at Belfast to Sarah Kenning of Ryefield Widow the Curatrix of the Minor Children of William Kenning Deceased the Universal Legatees in remainder."

http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014908/005014908_00175.pdf

Does anyone know what it means by "left unadministered", "Curatrix" and "the Universal Legatees"?

[Gilby]

I think I can now put a tick beside another of the siblings of William John Gilbert.  Eliza Jane Gilbert (not the same as in the previous two posts):

Christened in 1819:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FRQV-JZW
Parents Stephen Gilbert and Ann Jane.

Married James Gilbert in 1852:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGX7-9SC
James was the son of Thomas Gilbert who I'm now looking for.

My best option so far for Thomas Gilbert is one who died aged 95 in 1877 in Lurgan (right place), so born in about 1782 (about right, possibly a little old).  There's also a Jonathan Gilbert born in the area in 1823, who's father was Thomas Gilbert - so he may be a younger brother of James.  Just speculation though.

[Gilby]

When I was looking at the Jonathan Gilberts of Aghalee I found a Jonathan and Mary who had about 8+ children between 1813 and 1834.  There's one in the middle with parents listed as "Jonathan Gilbert" and "Margt".

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FRQV-PRX

Would it be fair to assume that Margt is a miss-reading of Mary?

[Gilby]

The problem is that the will of Stephen Gilbert (d.1902), brother of William John Gilbert, mentions “Annie Price” and “Minnie Weir” as his nieces.  Annie Gilbert married James Millar Killen and therefore became Annie Killen, not Price.  Was Annie Price a niece by another sibling?  Meanwhile the most likely candidate for “Minnie Weir” is a Mary Gilbert who married John Weir in January 1879 (thanks Kingskerswell).  Unfortunately, as pointed out by aghadowey, her father is listed as Richard, not William John.  So was Richard actually a brother of William John, or is Richard actually Robert, the husband of Sally Gilbert who may or may not have been a sister of William John!?

I believe I may have made a breakthrough!  Firstly, I found this record of Sarah Gilbert, daughter of Stephen Gilbert and Anne Jane (therefore William John's sister):
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FRQV-KPT

And then I have the marriage of Sally Gilbert, (Sally being a pet name for Sarah, I'm assuming they're the same person) who married Richard Gilbert:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGFX-L5L

Then the exciting bit was when I looked up Richard's Will (which I can read most of, for a change) which mentions his daughter Anna Gilbert (unmarried at the time), and his daughter Mary or Minnie Weir.  It also mentions his grandson Gilbert Weir.
http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/willsSearchResultsDetails.aspx

So finally I know who the mysterious "Minnie Weir" niece of Stephen Gilbert's is - the daughter of his sister Sally/Sarah.  And according to Kingskerswell she married John Weir in 1879, though I still haven't found this record myself.

It is possible that "Anna Gilbert" went on to marrie a Price to become "Annie Price", the other mysterious person in Stephen Gilbert's will.  I shall look into that now.

[aghadowey]

Not sure why you are so surprised to find the details about Minnie (Gilbert) Weir- I posted the information about her on the earlier thread on 5 Sept.- which is why it is NOT a good idea to have two topics looking the same family-

Only fathers are listed on marriage certificates. Mary Gilbert, father- Richard. m. 1879 John Weir, father- Robert.

and-

PRONI has Will of Richard Gilbert- " The Will of Richard Gilbert late of Ballinacorr County Armagh Farmer who died 20 July 1891 at same place was proved at Armagh by George Blaney Roland of Ballinacorr National School Teacher the sole Executor."
Will mentions daughter Anna Gilbert, daughter "Mary or Minnie Weir", grandson Gilbert Weir.

[Gilby]

You are very harsh on me.

Yes, I had your information about Minnie Weir, but you had not posted any links, and at that stage I wasn't sure how to find it for myself:

Ooh, thank-you.  How did you find that?  (I'm fairly new to this)

I had also discounted the will of Richard Gilbert (and, I admit, forgotten about it) because I had nothing to link him to my family.  It wasn't until I found a birth record of Sarah Gilbert that I was able to link in Richard.

I considered your suggestion of asking a mod to split the previous thread, but I don't think I would have been able to post a 3-post introduction to the new thread as I have done here.  I may be wrong, but since I am only new to this forum, surely I can be forgiven for that?

[Gilby]

If Stephen Gilbert (brother of William John Gilbert) died in 1902 and was the same Stephen that was born in 1814, he would have been about 88.  I have found a death record of an 88 year-old Stephen Gilbert who died in 1903:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FTX1-YYW

I can't find any Wills to match.  I'm wondering if this could be a transcribing error and if there's any way I might be able to tell.  Perhaps the volume or page number might give away the year?


Scratch that - I found the Stephen Gilbert I'm looking for - born c1814, died Oct-Dec 1902, which all fits.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FTXK-STT

[jennigal923]

You mentioned early in  this thread Sarah Frances Gilbert. She is the daughter of John Gilbert (I don't have record of his father at this time) and Sarah Douglas of Lurgan. Married John Earls Rutherford and they moved to New York.

She had the following siblings, that I have been able to trace:
Anne Gilbert1835 – 1925  (Married William Wentworth Paul)
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Mary Gilbert1841 – 1924 (married George Douglas)
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George Gilbert (I believe he was George Douglas Gilbert named for his grandfather George Douglas: a George Douglas Gilbert born sometime in the 1840's. His father is unknown, and he marries Helena Harpur who was born 1850 in Newry, Down (she was christened at Newry Methodist 7 March 1850) They have the following children: 1. George Douglas Gilbert Birth 10 Dec 1871 in Ireland Death 21 May 1941 in New Westminister, BC 2. Perceval Gilbert Birth 07 Feb 1879 in Belfast, Antrim, Ireland Death 25 Jan 1947 in Haney, Maple Ridge, British Columbia 3. Jannetta Gilbert Birth 29 Mar 1880 in Belfast, Antrim, Ireland Death )
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John Gilbert – 1877  (Married Anna Elizabeth Cordukes, and has a son named George Douglas Gilbert)
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Simpson Gilbert – 1922  (Unmarried)