William John Gilbert: his siblings and his children

[Gilby]

What time frames are you both talking about?

[pablo1]

Gilby, if you mean the William Douglas family, I am looking at the years from about 1780 ~.  However, this research is not as important as the Macaulay-Killen connection.  I haven't heard much from relatives about how far they can go back regarding their Macaulay lineage.  Still waiting.  If I come across anything new, I will make a post.

[Gilby]

I would be interested if you can find something new on the Killen-Macaulay connection.

In the meantime, here are extracts from the Ulster Directory of Doctors on Lurgan Douglases.

DOUGLAS, WILLIAM S.  (d 1842), Naval Medical Service and Lurgan, county Armagh;
LAH DUB 1809; joined the Naval Medical Service as assistant surgeon; apothecary and surgeon of Lurgan; member of the Belfast Medical Society from 1825; died 8 May 1842 at his home in Lurgan.  [Apothecaries (1829); BNL 13 May 1842 (d); Bradshaw (1819); Malcolm (1851); Pigot (1824)]

DOWGLASS, WILLIAM (1742/3-1812), Lurgan, county Armagh;
Born 1742/3; surgeon and apothecary, of Lurgan; died 1 January 1812; “in the arduous duties of a professional life was honoured with the esteem and confidence of a generous public.’ [BNL 7 January 1812 (d)]

DOUGLAS(S), JOHN CUPPAGE (1778-1850), Dublin;
Born 1778 in Lurgan, county Armagh, son of a general practitioner of Lurgan; served 5 years’ apprenticeship to his father; studied medicine at Trinity College, Dublin, and Edinburgh; LRCSI 1800; LAH Dub 1800; MD (St. Andrews) 1803 (on testimonials); LKQCPI 1810; FKQCPI (hon) 1832; surgeon to the Militia Regiment of Foot in county Tipperary; obstetrician in Dublin; assistant master of the Rotunda Hospital 1808-12; with Joseph Clarke he ‘laid the foundations of the high repute of Dublin as a school of midwifery’ (Wilde); of 16 Rutland Square East; author of various medical papers; married 23 January 1817 in Lisburn, Elizabeth Fulton (who was born 1783), second daughter of Joseph Fulton, solicitor and merchant, of Lisburn, and Ann Graham of Lisburn; died 20 November 1850 at 16 Rutland Square East; probate Prerogative Court 1850.  [Apothecaries (1829), BNL 28 January 1817 (m); Croly (1843-6); Crone (1928); Dub Nat Arch, Prerog Wills index; Hope (1903); Kirkpatrick Archive; Kirkpatrick and Jellet (1913); Newmann (1993); O’Doherty (2002); Smart (2004); Widdes (1963)]


Is John a son of your Dr William Douglas and Margaret Cuppage, if he’s about the right age?

[pablo1]

Yes, John Cuppage Douglas is one of their sons.  However, I don't have anything on William S.  It looks as though he might be a son or a close relation.  I will keep my eyes open for any new information on the Killen-Macaulay connection.  My father really didn't know that much about his ancestry.  However, he once told me that some relation had gone to Australia and acquired a lot of land.  I have checked the Macaulays, the Robinsons and the Higgins.  None of them had acquired much land in Australia except for the Killens.  I can only wonder, then, if long ago there had been some discussion in my dad's family about their distant relations who had done well down under.

[TedG-H]

In support of Gilby's speculation:
"If I had to take a (somewhat unsubstantiated) guess I’d say Henry the yarn merchant was son of John, son of Henry, son of Jonathan, son of Jonathan and Ann."
Lurgan Town Rental List 1763-1766 (http://www.lurganancestry.com/lurgand1763p1.htm)
John Gilbert for tenement next to market house. Renewable for £1:8:0. 1738 for the life of Henry McClatchy, son of Samuel. He died lately in artillery.

[TedG-H]

I believe this Henry Gilbert (by his wife Ann Douglas) is the father of the John Gilbert who married Sarah Douglas.  Henry died in 1847 aged 90 and his wife Ann died in 1828 aged 69.

I checked George Douglas Gilbert and Helena Harpur's marriage certificate yesterday and this give George's father as 'John Gilbert, Gentleman'. This may already have been established, but I haven't seen it amongst the posts. Also, there is another son of George and Helena who has not been mentioned - Henry Edward Gilbert. He was born in Liverpool on 14th Dec 1875 (I have the birth certificate) and emigrated to Canada, where he died in 1912; he was a Methodist Preacher. A granddaughter of his had her DNA analysed by 'ancestry' and it came up with a match to me and my father (4th to 6th cousin, confidence 'high' to my father and 'good' to me). We are descended from Henry Gilbert and Ann Douglas (through their daughter Anne, who married William Hamilton) and if the John Gilbert who married Sarah Douglas is the son of Henry Gilbert and Ann Douglas (the circumstantial evidence is very strong), this would make Henry Edward Gilbert's granddaughter my 4th cousin once removed. I haven't seen any other names in her ancestry that suggest the DNA link is through another family. Thus the DNA evidence strongly supports the circumstantial evidence that the John Gilbert who married Sarah Douglas was the son of Henry (c1757-1847).

[jennigal923]

Ted, that is significant news. DNA may well be the only means to prove suspected connections. My dad has tested via Familytree DNA and we have also shared this information with GEDmatch.

I am hoping to prove my Douglas line connects with George Douglass of Dougher (Lurgen). He is the father of Sarah Douglas. To date we haven't found a surviving male Douglas to the line, so a family finder match may help to answer that question (although the number of generations between my Dad's line and George's line can make this hard to prove even in DNA). Have you or this other match shared your results ith GEDmatch?

[TedG-H]

Hi Jenni - agreed, the DNA matching gets less useful as the generation distances increase and, it seems to me, there was quite a lot of intermarrying between families at that time, so one can never be quite sure if a link is through a known/likely historical route or an unknown one. Yes, my DNA is on GEDmatch. Best, Ted

[jennigal923]

Hi Gilby and TedG

I was looking over my Dad's Familyfinder matches and found lady who also has Gilbert Linneage - I contacted her and here is what she says:

My great grandmother was Jane Gilbert from Ballinacor Seagoe Co Armagh. She married Robert Murphy. Her father was Jonathan Gilbert b 1823 died 1896.

Seagoe, as you probably know, borders Shankill. From what I can tell of the linneage that you shared with me, this Jonathan won't be descended from either of the Douglas - Gilbert marriages we have. Do you know who he is?  I don't know if Gilbert is how I (well my dad) matches with her, but interesting that she is from our area (genealogy wise).

TedG would you look on Gedmatch and see if we have any amount of a match? Look for W & J Douglas.

J