Paul - a Huguenot Family in London

[AMBLY]

If Joseph died 1869, that appears to match the death registered Dec Qtr 1869, age 73 in Bethnal Green.  And is the Burial 15 Oct 1869, Hackney, age 73, Joseph PAUL of 52 Viaduct Street, Bethnal Green  (Non Conformist & Non Parochial Registers)

South Conduit Street was renamed Viaduct Street in 1864.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=22751

I think this may be Joseph  in 1861 - with a new wife.  Do you already have this Kirk?

1861: 22 South Conduit Street, Bethnal Green.
RG 9/ Piece 258 /  Folio / 159 / Pg14
Head: Joseph PALL (POALL ?) 64, Silk Weaver, b Bishopagae(sic) City
Wife: Mary PALL (POALL ?) 54, n Bethnal Green
Head: Marmaduke CONNOR 29, Silk Weaver, b Bethnal Green
Wife: Sarah Emma CONNOR 23, Silk Weaver, b Bethnal Green
Son: Marmaduke CONNOR 2 mths, b Bethnal Green

(The CONNORS are on a separate Schedule in same dwelling - may or may not be related. Marmaduke CONNOR married Sarah Emma TASHAW in 1857, Bethnal Green)

And this may be the 2nd-marriage of Joseph  - albeit his age a bit out
20th Sep 1858, Church of St Bartholemew, Bethnal Green
Joseph PAUL 52, widower, Weaver, Father: Richard PAUL,Weaver
Mary Ann SANSUM 49, Spinster,  Father: Thomas SANSUM, Weaver
Both of 11 Scott Street.
Signed: The X Mark of Joseph PAUL
Signed: The X Mark of Mary Ann SANSUM
Witness: James PETIGREE, his X Mark and John ARCHER, signed.

With his widow in 1871 at the same address he was buried from:
52 Viaduct Street, Bethnal Green
RG10/ Piece: 492 / Folio: 88 / Pg42
Head: Mary Ann PAUL 64, widow, Silk Weaver, b Bethnal Green
In the same address on 2 different schedules, are an elderly woman and an elderly couple.


Cheers
AMBLY

[Georgfriedrich]

Hello everyone,
I didn't talk about Eleanor as I thought it might cloud the issue however this is what I know about her.  She married John Read  and together they had at least two children, one being Mary Ann, my grandmother's grandmother.  When Mary Ann was young her parents separated.  I don't know the reasons but I suspect it was something to do with John because he was never mentioned and no one named their children after him.  I haven't tackled John yet but Eleanor lived with a man named Stephen West who was a French Polisher by profession. When he was a child he lived next door to the Read family.  Eleanor's oldest daughter started to call herself Sarah West and this is the name she married under.  Mary Ann sometimes called herself Mary Ann Paul but when she married she used her real surname.  Both girls loved their stepfather.  They named children after him and he was a witness at their wedding.
Eleanor died in 1915.  You can find her in the 1911 census. under the name West.

Eleanor was often called Ellen and yes that is her in the 1841 census under the surname Pawl.

Kirk

[Georgfriedrich]

Dear Smudwhisk,
I did wonder about the naming order too but it isn't always followed and family loyalties can change due to circumstances.  Perhaps seems were not too rosy between son and parents until later on  however the fact that the 'father' was a lawyer might put a spoke in the works except that I don;t know what Charles' occupation was.  I only know that Joseph, Eleanor and possibly Richard were silk weavers.  Richard was Charles' tenth child of at least seventeen.  I know at least eight died young but he could have apprenticed his children out as his circumstances could have changed and perhaps he was not as successful as his title might make him appear?  These are just thoughts of course.
I didn't know about that other Paul family in B'gate so I guess I should go through all of them and draw up lists to see who's who and who belongs where.

Kirk

[Georgfriedrich]

Dear Ambly,
I found that burial for Joseph just last night too.   
I didn't know the details of that second marriage so that is something to add.  His death was registered by Mary and they lived at Viaduct Street.  I am not worried about the ages given for marriage as I often find that ancestor has been somewhat Zsa Zsa Gabor like when it comes to revealing their true age!
I wish I could find that first marriage!
Bye for now
Kirk

[ciderdrinker]

Good Morning
1841 census Essex St
Joseph Paul 45 weaver y
Sarah 40 y
Ellen 13 y
Joseph Paul married Sarah Harris 12.5.1816 by banns at St George in the East,both of this parish,bachelor and spinster..
he signed and she made her mark.Witness William Harris and J Serrall.
Sarah Harriss was baptised at St Andrews Holborn 15.3.1795 d of William and Elizabeth Harriss.
Sarah Paul death Mar 1851 Whitechapel.
Ciderdrinker

[smudwhisk]

however the fact that the 'father' was a lawyer might put a spoke in the works except that I don;t know what Charles' occupation was.

Charles was a weaver too.  London Apprenticeships Abstracts has:

1776 Peter Paul son of Charles of St Botolph Bishopsgate, weaver, to William Bampton, Pewterers Company.

That's the only Paul entry in the index.  Interestingly, as they lived in St Botolph Bishopsgate, Charles wasn't a freeman which perhaps you would have expected if his father was a lawyer, ie. had money of sorts .

No I agree not all families name their eldest children after the grandparents, I've some that don't, but all the evidence so far does start to suggest that Charles the weaver is less likely to be Charles Etienne Paul.

[ciderdrinker]

Hello
Richard Paul buried St Botolph without Bishopsgate 7.9.1829 age 66 address weird George and Catherine Wheel Yard.
Married St George in the East by banns 20.1.1792 Martha Hayes both this parish by banns sp & bach and both made mark.Witness John Fell and Jasper Mishaw (made mark).
Martha Hayes baptised 3.7.1763 All Hallow tottenham to Henry and Martha Hayes.
1841 census Angel Alley st Botolph
Thomas Reed 48 clockmaker Ireland
Elizabeth 38 y
Dinah 14 n
James 12 Ireland
William 7 y
Thomas 4 y
Caroline 2mths
Martha Paul 81 y
Martha Died Mar 1851 City of London 2 173
Ciderdrinker

[smudwhisk]

I didn't know about that other Paul family in B'gate so I guess I should go through all of them and draw up lists to see who's who and who belongs where.

All Paul, apparently Hall Paul, was a baker by profession and a Freeman.  It seems he was the son of a Peter and Mary Paul, baptised as Hall Pull, in St Botolph Bishopsgate in 1722 and married by licence in 1746 as All Paul. and buried as Hall Paul in 1775 at St Botolph Bishopsgate.  On the face of it, he may be a different family but they need investigating as there are some overlaps in children's names. 

It's a shame Charles didn't become a freeman or be apprenticed because it would have confirmed his father's name.  The fact he didn't tends to suggest that he probably learned his trade from family, which weavers often did even at that time and would have avoided the need to pay for an apprenticeship, is another indication of a poorer family.

[Georgfriedrich]

Dear Smudwhisk,
Hall Paul - The son of Peter Paul and Mary  - I shall investigate them.

I do agree that my Pauls were a poor family and the lack of an apprentice record could indicate, as you say, that the boy Charles was trained 'in house' but I wonder why his son wasn't trained likewise.
I also agree that the link with Charles Etienne Paul is now looking rather weak and while it would be fab, I must put aside romanticism and stick with facts darn it!

Having said that I still have the family stories of Huguenot descent to prove or otherwise.