Author Topic: New York Probate Records at Family Search  (Read 1030 times)

Offline Michael ONeil

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New York Probate Records at Family Search
« on: Thursday 05 September 13 08:09 BST (UK) »
Hi folks,

Anyone offer any tips on how to use the New York Probate Records at Family Search for a few things.

I already have copies of the following:
Application for letters of administration dated 26th Oct 1865 for a James O'Neil (died intestate).
Application for letters of administration dated 22nd Feb 1880 for a Felix J. O'Neil (died intestate).

I also have the wills (petitions) for:
Catherine O'Neil (died 28th May 1883) petition dated 13th June 1883.
Mary A. O'Neil (died 13th June 1916) (will made 9th July 1909) and date filed 18th Aug 1916.

What I'd really like to know if possible, particularly for Felix J. O'Neil is how the administrator in this case a brother of the deceased disposed of the personal property. My reason is that 1880 seems a pivotal year in my family's research with this brother returning from Akron, Ohio to administer the probate process after his mother renounces her right to do this but also because there were 3 brothers and 3 sisters in NYC who could have done this instead. There appears to have been a family schism and I was wondering whether Felix's probate process had something to do with it as the brother who was the administrator then returned to Akron and 'invested' in a new business?

So what's the best step to look for the information given that it will involve a lot of manual browsing of images. I have found some records in some indexes quoting dates filed/proved, liber, page and some bundle numbers but I'm at a loss as to how to use them and what volumes to start with and/or why?

I also have the death dates for 2 other individuals and would like to know if there's any information on them too but I'm not sure if they died with or without wills and what sort of time I need to leave between death and any records being likely filed, etc to start looking from.
William Dickers (died 26th Oct 1865).
Hannah Angela Ames-O'Neil (died 3rd Apr 1902).

Any advice would be gratefully accepted.
Surnames: O'Neil, Beechinor, Ames, Dickers
Locations: Clonakilty, Cashilisky, Fourcuil, Ringroe, Knuckskagh, New York City, Ohio, Canada, Liverpool.

Offline legaleze

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Re: New York Probate Records at Family Search
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 28 September 13 19:11 BST (UK) »
Hi Michael.  I have not forgotten about Mary Ann O'Neil.  I will go to Calvary next week as to finding out what they have on microfilm so we can find a death certificate or transfer permit or burial permit; they have to have something.   My leg injury has prevented me from getting down there.  But will go next week.  It's not far, but I cannot yet walk the graves.  I can go to the Administration Building. 

As to your other questions: when able to do stairs I can try the Surrogate's court and I expect the files are buried in some court archive.  Name, date of death, ANY index #, date file, liber, page, and whatever numbers will be most helpful.  More is better.

Today, court records are filed by an Index #, which are a number and a year.  It may be that back at that time they did not use index #'s.  Writing to them will take centuries -- best to go down there.  I saved the .pdf files on Mary Ann O'Neil.

This will take awhile; I have to go by subway and cannot yet do stairs.  But I also may have to work next week or the week after and have no choice but to go into the city, and may have to find a way to get there anyway.  I know I have not been too quick on this, but the fall has put me back and the doctor said no stairs.  Sorry for the delay.

These will be public records due to the length of time passed.  I'm not sure about looking up someone who may or may not have been probated.  I don't work in probate but I'm a paralegal.  Probate is not required if there is no will.  If William Dickers and Hannah O'Neil did not do wills, there will be no probate.  At least not here and not now.  Is there any indication that they had substantial estates, because those with substantial estates are more likely to do a will than not?

I can tell you this, since Felix had a will to be probated he named executors or executrixes.  The wording always says about someone failing to act -- so when the mother did not want to take on the job of administering the estate, secondary and ever tertiary choices are named.  Or were they co-executors?  It's problematic to name a person residing in a foreign country.  Was the mother back home in Europe because she would have a tough time adminstering the estate.  Second, an Ohio citizen is acceptable to adminster an estate in New York.  As long as they are in the U.S. the only problem is travel from Ohio to New York and so on.  We are cautioned not to name Executors who are out of the U.S.   When the mother declined for whatever reason, Felix might have been named already.  However, if the mother declined or the Surrogate's Court saw that she was out of country, and no secondaries, etc. were designated, they would have appointed someone -- and could have been Felix chosen by the court.  As I said, if there's a will -- it has to be probated and Felix would have to show that he followed the will in administering the estate.

My thoughts are 6 months and so on.  Letters Testamentary -- letters of authority from the court to the Executor to act in authority are renewable every six months.   So, he would have been given letters testamentary when he filed for Probate and every six months therafter because they expire.  I would look soon after death for the initial filing -- and then every 6 months thereafter.  If someoned died in October, I would look for October and November.  People dont' wait on this too long, but in your case even December because the mother had to decline and then who knows how Felix was appointed.  So, begin with soon after death date moving forward.  If you find the month -- then it's 6 months after that that he would have to request new Letters Testamentary, and so on.

I hope this helps.  I will make a sincere effort next week to get on with Mary Ann and Calvary, at the least.

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barb


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Offline legaleze

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Re: New York Probate Records at Family Search
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 28 September 13 19:41 BST (UK) »
P.S.  I am Carpenter49 on your Calvary thread.  Don't know how I have another screen ID.

I will continue with Carpenter49 after this.

Barb.

Offline carpenter49

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Re: New York Probate Records at Family Search
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 28 September 13 19:59 BST (UK) »
I'm back under my correct account.

A thought -- the sisters in NYC, though qualified, might not have ever had a chance of being appointed.  This might have been viewed as a "man's job" in what was a "man's world."   Remember we are talking about a time when women did not even have the right to vote.  The judges would have all been men and so on.

I know it's sexist -- but it is the way it was back then.  Institututional sexism.  A woman could be named in the Will as Executrix, but I don't know if, when the mother declined, whether the judge would have chosen one of the sisters.  In any case, the Ohio brother might have been named as co-executor or secondary Executor already in the Will when drawn, and the remaining 6 siblings had no chance of being appointed.   That leaves you with a rift that might have been between the brother in Ohio and the 3 remaining brothers.  If the rift was over the use of the estate after it was dissolved, well I can give you examples of how one gets around it so it is quite possible your relative opened a business in Ohio.   He dissolves the estate and files papers that he did what was followed in the will.  It's up to the heirs to ask for an accounting or go to Surrogate's court to see his final filing, especially if they have seen the will and know this or that was NOT done, and whether he did what is in Will.  Instead, he sets up a Trust in the name of "The Estate of Felix O'Neil, and a bank account with that name, using the sold assets, but he is the only signatory on the Trust and the only one who could draw on the bank account.

Today, people would be running to Surrogate's Court to see the filings to see that a Will was exactly carried out if they had any reason to believe they were an heir and the Will was not carried out. 

We have time.  PDF me what you have because if I can get down to Surrogate's on Mary Ann, might as well do the others.   I have DOD, liber and page on Mary Ann.   I can go October 16th and after to Surrogate's Court -- assuming they are all Manhattan, New York County, residents.  Send me what you have that will help and I will see what I can do. 
It is what it is.


Offline Michael ONeil

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Re: New York Probate Records at Family Search
« Reply #4 on: Monday 30 September 13 09:26 BST (UK) »
Cheers Barb - I've emailed you with what I have for now.
Surnames: O'Neil, Beechinor, Ames, Dickers
Locations: Clonakilty, Cashilisky, Fourcuil, Ringroe, Knuckskagh, New York City, Ohio, Canada, Liverpool.

Offline carpenter49

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Re: New York Probate Records at Family Search
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 08 October 13 15:42 BST (UK) »
I emailed you some more information on Surrogate's court.  As we get closer to the 16th, and I see how the weather will be, and depending on whether I get called into work, I will let you know the day I am going and the result, such as how long I can expect to wait until the file is returned from storage.

I only had one question and that was if Hannah used Ames-O'Neil or O'Neil -- if you know?

barb 
It is what it is.