Which father?

[Rpeake]

Thank you

[myluck!]

In answer to your question which father’s name to use;
from a brief look at the family I think that I would accept the details recorded at Ellen’s marriage
unless you locate further information to the contrary.
My reasoning for this is that it is an official record and everything else requires proof.
What I discovered is listed below with links:

Marriage Record of Ellen BROPHY & William MURPHY; 1911
shows her parents as Thomas BROPHY & Teresa CRIMMINS (transcribed as BRIMMER);

Ellen BROPHY in the MURPHY home on the 1911 census
Although her parents’ address was given as 19 Gordon Place;
they are not resident there on the census return

BROPHY Family on 1901 census at 11.7 Gordon’s Place

This looks like the church marriage record in 1886 of Thomas BROPHY & Teresa CRIMMINS;
her name is transcribed as CUMMINS however it looks more like CRIMMINS to me,
if you examine the original. which would tie to the civil record shown by jnoone earlier.

I believe that the family were in the habit of using alternate given names throughout their lives
as the baptisms previously found with the mother Teresa Crimmins,
showed different father’s first names on each:
Baptism of Ellen BROPHY 1887 (F)John
Baptism of James Michael BROPHY 1889 (F) James
Baptism of Wiliam BROPHY 1891 (F)Thomas
However other records tie all these people, places and names together.

There are prison records referring to Teresa BROPHY in 1900 which would imply
that she was alive at that time 1900 in Mountjoy as Bessie O’BRIEN
& 1900 as Teresa BROPHY which may be the same minor offence of drunk.
The address of Gordon’s Place links her to the family in 1901
and the birthplace of Mt. Pleasant Ave links her to the baptism records.

There is also a record of an Ellen BROPHY in 1910;
birthplace Mountpleasant, residence Gordon’s Place, aged 22
which would tie the baptism with the father’s named John. She was also known as Teresa!

There are further records that I looked at on a paid site where
William BROPHY aged 21 in 1911 showed his mother Teresa of 19 Gordon Place as his next of kin;
Teresa BROPHY aged 43 also in 1911 showed T. Brophy as her husband and next of kin;
James BROPHY aged 25 in 1914 showed his mother Teresa of 21 Gordon Place as his next of kin.

James also applied unsuccessfully to join the Royal Dublin Fusiliers in 1914;
his file gives his next of kin as mother Theresa of 19 Gordon Place
and Bro. William of South Richmond Street.
There is no other family member mentioned i.e. Ellen or Thomas.

There is a death of a Theresa BROPHY in 1918
that fits with the correct age but not at any other time in Dublin
which could imply one of two things that
Teresa was listed as Mary in 1901
or that Thomas and Teresa just parted ways and he called a new partner, Mary, his wife on the 1901 census.

Hope that this helps rather than confuses but if you go though each records and compare the similarities you will see that most ties together and the purchase of a few civil records could confirm the details. – good luck!

[aghadowey]

Marriage record lists residence of bride (and groom) at the time of the parents but that may not be where their families were living.

[myluck!]

Marriage record lists residence of bride (and groom) at the time of the parents but that may not be where their families were living.

In the case of Ellen BROPHY's marriage, the church record fortunately shows both her parents names and their address; and it differs from hers. Unfortunately, she is shown on the 1911 census a few months earlier, at the address she gave at her marriage; but her parents are not where is given for them or elsewhere on that road!

[joannae]

Hello,

I am very interested in this post as James Brophy who unsuccessfully applied to the Dublin Fusiliers just might be James Ernest Brophy who successfully applied to the Lancashire Fusiliers and went on to Gallipoli. 

I am looking more into   James Ernest who is my gr grandfather.

Thank you for the read.  Any suggestions on great places to search, feel free to advise.

Kind regards.

[myluck!]

joannae
Welcome to Roots Chat!
What do you already know of your great grandfather James Ernest BROPHY?

In my searches for this Brophy family I have located several pieces of information for the James mentioned.
The address of Gordon Place and parents names are the main links.
Two definitive pieces are that James was in Mountjoy on a charge of deserting the Connaught Rangers Reg#10965 in 1914 and unsuccessfully tried to join the Royal Dublin Fusiliers later that year.

If you know more about your James Brophy we may be able to help prove he is the same man or look up further information on him. Did he survive WW1?
I don't see a death in Gallipoli but there is one in France in 1916 (See Link)
There was a death in Gallipoli but the man was in the Royal Dublin Fusiliers

As your GGF he was presumably married - if you locate his marriage certificate this will help piece more together for you

If he is not from the same family it may be worth while starting a new topic

[joannae]

myluck!  Hi. Wow, some great info there, which has prompted me to dig out my laptop for more info.

James Ernest was my grandfather, (sorry, I got that wrong).  James CHESTER is my gr grandfather and was a member of the Lancashire Fusiliers Service number: 9360, (now confirmed as not your guy), where I understand he achieved the rank of acting RSM on 20/04/1919 and was later discharged as RSM.  He married Mary Ann. They lived at Bolton Rd, Bury.

I think her Mary Ann's maiden name was Webb.  Mary Ann and James Chester had four children, three of whom died of consumption.  James Ernest is my grandfather DOB 30/04/1903.  Born in Aldershot, England. GrGrandfather was advised by his doctor to take James Ernest to a more temperate climate as he was quite a sickly child.  I believe they moved after the war,possibly 1920.  They moved to Australia.

James Ernest married Molly ? (can't lay my hands on the surname atm).  He worked in an area of essential supply during the second world war (for a petroleum company), and as such was not a soldier himself.  They had five children.  James, Patricia, Christopher, Colleen and Mark.  Patricia, Christopher and Colleen are deceased.  James Terrence Brophy is my father.  DOB: 07/11/1941

Any suggestions on what to search and where to search next would be much appreciated.

Kind regards,

Jo-anna

[myluck!]

Joannae
A couple of things
As it now seems that your James Brophy is from a different family;
may I suggest that you start a new topic to avoid confusion?

Depending on what you are hoping to find will depend on which forum to use
i.e. your Irish roots or English roots etc.

I can see the family on the UK 1911 and 1901 census and have found some information that I will then add to the discussion as I can confirm most of what you have stated here plus a bit.

Also, once you have a third posting on this site you can send and receive private messages
This is the best way to share sensitive information e.g. details of people still living to protect their privacy if you are looking for living relatives.

[myluck!]

Any suggestions on what to search and where to search next would be much appreciated.

you can access ancestry.com free for a trial period if not already subscribing
on this site there are at least two public family trees that include your ancestors
I would however be very cautious in accepting the information shown as there are anomalies in it
e.g. one child is shown as having died in 1902 but she is listed on the 1911 census