Minimum info, but could use suggestions

[Gillg]

Just working to fit in all the information you have provided and have the following questions:

1. Whose son was John Kershaw Hambler born Saddleworth W Yorks June Q 1862?  In the 1881 & 1891 he is shown as David & Alice's son, but they didn't marry till 1874.  Could he have been a nephew, perhaps with that Kershaw middle name?  Odd that he was born in Yorkshire. 

2.  What relation was Fred Hambler, executor of Sarah Hambler/Kershaw's will in 1908 to Sarah?  In 1911 he's living with his father Fred in Rochdale, Fred snr born Dec Q 1869, Fred jnr born Dec Q 1901. Was Fred snr perhaps another of Sarah's brothers. born before David & Alice married?

3.  How do we know that Ann Kershaw's parents were John & Sally?

Did David and Alice Hambler have any other children?

Not asking much, am I, but you have all been so skilful at finding stuff that I've been struggling to find for years.  Just waiting for my niece to send a photo of the Alice Wild sampler which Cousin Sarah left to our family to check the date on it.

Regards
Gillg

[Annette7]

Re. Question 1.

John Kershaw Hambler b.1862 Saddleworth was indeed a son of David by his first wife Elizabeth.

In 1871 he (35) in is Butterworth with his parents - Eli 62 and Sarah 63 - together with a brother William 26 and John K. Hambler 8  b. Saddleworth shown as grandson to Eli.   David is shown as a widower.
Ref.RG10 - 413 - 86 - 37

In 1861 David is in Saddleworth with new wife Elizabeth:

David Humble (this is as written)    25     b. Rochdale
Elizabeth Humble                           23     b. Oldham
Ref.RG9 - 3242 - 16 - 11.

David married as David Ambler - familysearch shows David Ambler, son of Eli Ambler, married Eliz'h Mills 8/1/1861 Oldham - both are single  - her father is shown as - wait for it - John Kershaw!! 

Her baptism is on familysearch: Elizabeth Mills bp.26/2/1837 Oldham, dau. of Mary Mills.

So, whether John Kershaw married Mary Mills after her birth or she just knew who her father was I have no idea.

Annette

[heywood]

Here are the references for John and Ann
1901 3818/165/21
25 Dove Street Oldham
Ann Kershaw head single 58 yrs b Oldham
John Kershaw 22 yrs b Morecambe
Mary Ann Hawksworth 57 yrs lodger b Oldham

*At this moment am wondering if I knitted that last night- I can't find them in 1891 

1881 4083/ 16/ 26
5 Gartside Street Oldham

Ann Kershaw 38 yrs b Butterworth
John 2 yrs b Morecambe

Will have to look later

[heywood]

Somehow I thought you had a BIG file on Kershaws etc and wouldbe able to slot everything in place 

This is who I thought Ann's parents are but I could be very wrong! There are a lot of Kershaws in Butterworth/Crompton and the wider area.

1851
Bardslys Crompton
John Kershaw 44 yrs Farmer of 10 acres b Butterworth
Saley Kershaw 48 yrs b Butterworth
Elizabeth Kershaw 14 yrs b Crompton
Ann Kershaw 8 yrs b Crompton
Eliza Cheatham lodger 18 yrs b Crompton

1855 Sarah Kershaw marries William Spencer

1861 Crompton
Sally Spencer 56 yrs
Ann Kershaw  18yrs
both born Butterworth

1871
They are still at Bardsleys, Crompton
Ann - head
Sally Spencer - stepmother 
Joseph Kershaw lodger 61 yrs born Butterworth

[Annette7]

Question 2 - Fred Hambler, senior was son of a James and Elizabeth - David and James do not appear to be brothers - cousins maybe?

Certainly, there seems no real close connection between Sarah and Fred.   

David and Alice also had a son Charles Eli Hambler bc.1875 so their only children together were  Charles and Sarah.

Question 3 - I don't believe that Sally was Ann's mother.   In 1871 census with Ann she is Sally Spencer 67 Wid. but shown as Step mother. - RG10 - 4110 - 72 - 5

In 1861 Sally Spencer is head of household with Ann Kershaw 18 daughter.

1851 - Crompton, Lancs. - ref. HO107 - 2243 - 412 - 41

John Kershaw    44    b. Braiseworth, Lancs.
Saley Kershaw   48         ditto
Elizabeth Kershaw  14    b. Crompton
Ann Kershaw 8   b. Crompton
Eliza Cheatham  18   lodger    b. Crompton

There's a marriage in Dec.qtr.Rochdale when 2 on the page are a John Kershaw and Sally Anderton so this could be when step mother Sally came into the picture.

Ann's birthplace shown as either Crompton or Butterworth and I can't so far find any obvious baptism for her or her older sister Elizabeth to ascertain who their mother was.

Annette

(Heywood has nipped in before me but will post this anyway).

[heywood]

It's all confusing and I do hope it helps -

1891 has this family on Dove Street

Sally Hawksworth 57 yrs head single b Oldham
Mary Ann Hawksworth 46 yrs daughter single b Oldham
John Henry Hawksworth 22 yrs son b Oldham
John Keshaw 12 yrs adopted son born Huddersfield Yorkshire
Betsy Taylor 26 yrs lodger

Clearly Mary Ann cannot be the daughter of Sally. (This is not the previous Sally Kershaw/Spencer)
Mary Ann was lodging with Ann and John in 1901

I think Ann Kershaw born abt 1844 Butterworth is a servant in Ashton under Lyne (not too far from Oldham)

[heywood]

(Heywood has nipped in before me but will post this anyway).

I only nipped in with the Ann/John information because I was the one who asserted that her parents were John and Sally. I thought I had better explain myself 

[heywood]

Question 3 - I don't believe that Sally was Ann's mother.   In 1871 census with Ann she is Sally Spencer 67 Wid. but shown as Step mother. - RG10 - 4110 - 72 - 5

In 1861 Sally Spencer is head of household with Ann Kershaw 18 daughter.

1851 - Crompton, Lancs. - ref. HO107 - 2243 - 412 - 41

John Kershaw    44    b. Braiseworth, Lancs.
Saley Kershaw   48         ditto
Elizabeth Kershaw  14    b. Crompton
Ann Kershaw 8   b. Crompton
Eliza Cheatham  18   lodger    b. Crompton

There's a marriage in Dec.qtr.Rochdale when 2 on the page are a John Kershaw and Sally Anderton so this could be when step mother Sally came into the picture.

Ann's birthplace shown as either Crompton or Butterworth and I can't so far find any obvious baptism for her or her older sister Elizabeth to ascertain who their mother was.

Annette

(Heywood has nipped in before me but will post this anyway).

The marriage December quarter 1848 is between Sally Anderton and Joseph Ashton 

[heywood]

If the marriage is correct between William Spencer and Sarah Kershaw - she was Sarah Butterworth.
There is a marriage in 1840 between a John Kershaw and a Sarah Butterworth.

I can't find any details re this marriage and perhaps at the moment, these folk are too far removed from the query.
We don't know yet whether it is the right Ann Kershaw, I suppose.