Wedding and baptism records

[stanmapstone]

Under Ecclesiastical law no fee can be charged for the administration of Sacraments. One nineteenth century Bishop said that to charge such a fee was “downright and glaring simony.”
The Baptismal Fees Abolition Act was passed in 1872, under which no fee can be charged for baptism notwithstanding any ancient custom to the contrary. The purpose of this act was to make the law clear in respect of fees for baptisms or for registering baptisms, it appeared that fees were being charged in some parishes, and it was intended to put an end to this system.
In one case where a rector demanded a fee of two shillings for a baptism legal opinion was that;
a)   No fee can be claimed for the registration of a baptism;
b)   It is very doubtful whether in any case, even where there has been a custom to do so, a fee can be asked for the administration of baptism;
c)   It is certain that no such fee can be recovered by law;
d)   It is also certain that any clergyman refusing to baptize or to register the baptism on the ground of no fee having been paid can be proceeded against and punished under the 68th and 70th Canons of the Act of 52 George III., cap. 146.
See also http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=619264.msg4678701#msg4678701
Stan

[davidgodalming]

Thanks Trish. My great great uncle James was a very naughty boy. He got 5 years in prison for sheep stealing. I read an account of his trial at the archives in Carmarthen.

[Llinos26]

Hello , I think James Jonathan was my great grandfather , who moved to merthyr. Do you have any details of why he stole the sheep ?

[davidgodalming]

Hi Llinos, I think "your" James Jonathan and "my" James Jonathan are one and the same person in which case we're related. I looked at the Carmarthen Journal for 28 October 1864 and the description of the trial is there in the records held by Carms. County Council. However as to why he stole the sheep other than the obvious reason of making a profit there's no explanation. He wasn't represented by a solicitor in court.

Are you on Genes Reunited?

[Llinos26]

No I am new to this , my name prior to marriage was Jonathan , and Dad was Joseph! I took Evan Jonathan ( also grandson and  2nd cousin) to Llansawel this week ! He wants to think James was a Robin Hood character - but seems unlikely !!!! I can assure you no one further down the line has been stealing sheep recently . Should I join Genes Reunited ? Interested in anything you may have Llinos

[davidgodalming]

Llinos,

My Jonathan connection is a great grandmother born in Aberdare in 1862. Ann Jonathan. By chance I was in Llansawel on 29 June last. If you'd like to e mail me on  ^(*) I'll tell you as much as I know.

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[Llinos26]

Thanks David , I will do that post weekend , family folklore has it that they were all very religious , almost Bible bashing ( seems strange given my gr grandfather performance ) but that could be based on is marriage . Other interesting item I would like to explore is ( again family folklore ) that they arrived in a ship at Carmarthen bay , fleeing  religious persecution  in Scotland ... Everyone was named after Bible . Met "village historian" at Llansawel visit , who said he could open up Methodist church records for me . My email is ^(*). You can google me , I have an up to date LinkedIn profile and live in London. Thanks for your prompt reply , I am really excited about thiis  , husband thinks I am mad !!! Llinos   

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[osprey]

there's a marriage in Talley for a John Jonathan of Llansawel and Anne Rees of Talley 17/2/1776 making them in the right area to be parents of your Joseph. Timothy Jonathan was enumerated as 67 in the 1851 census, so they wouldn't appear to be twins.

 

 

[davidgodalming]

Thank you Osprey very much. There seems to have been an extended Jonathan family around Llansawel and as I know from my visit to the area this June, Talley is very close to Llansawel.

May I ask exactly where did you get the info. from re the 1776 wedding?

Also can you  or anyone else enlighten me as to weddings and parish records? I have received some conflicting info. and comments. Did chapel goers get married in a church as well as a chapel or was it only in a church that weddings were recognised unless people were Quakers or Jewish. As far as I know I have no Catholic ancestors but when were Catholic church weddings recognised? I find this all very confusing as so many people seem to give different comments.