Hellfire Club Queens Road, Manchester

[wilcoxon]

BREWSTER SESSIONS .
Manchester Times  Saturday, August 27, 1870
Job Page , Queens Park  Hotel, 1 Crompton Lane

THE BREWSTER SESSIONS .
Manchester Times . Saturday, September 7, 1872
Public house licence was asked to be granted to Junction Inn to Job Page , it was said Job was a respectable man and had kept the house for three years. Application was refused.

BREWSTER SESSIONS .
Manchester Times  Saturday, September 5, 1874
Application for a spirit licence at the Junction Hotel, Hollyvale, Collyhurst , proprietor Job Page who said that he had added a storey to his house and improved it`s front elevation in consequence made to him by the city improvement committee, who had led him to understand that they would lend their countenance and approval to this application

 BREWSTER SESSIONS .
Manchester Times Saturday, September 4, 1875
Application  licence Job Page, Junction Hotel

MANCHESTER LICENSING SESSIONS .
Manchester Times Saturday, September 1, 1877
Job Page who applied for the eighth time for premises at the corner of Queens Road and Smedley Road . Application opposed on behalf of owners of property in the neighbourhood.

On searching for a Junction Inn or Hotel, it seems nearly every town in Lancashire had one !

[Wilbs]

Thank you Wilcoxon, fascinating reply.  Is it possible to search The Brewster Sessions for a specific person?  Job & Martha Page are not related to me, but I have (supposedly) a licensed victualler in the family in the 1800s who is proving to be very elusive.  I say "supposedly" as all searches have returned a zero result and there's doubt whether he existed (illegitimate children) or name changed.

Thank you

Wilbs

[wilcoxon]

If you give the names and date range, and any other details you have then I can take a look.
It does sound quite intriguing.
Am I right in  guessing a child was born in 1886  and he was named as the father ?

[Wilbs]

Thank you Wilcoxon for your very kind offer.

It's not as straight forward as a simple illegitimate child, and I've been searching for a breakthrough with my paternal family for years.  Every so often I find a possible lead, but limited success.

My family is Wilberforce and sisters Ida and Grace suddenly appear in Toxteth Park in Liverpool on the 1891 census.  I've posted several times on Rootschat trying to find these ladies before 1891 and a very good lead led me to "Slaters Diectory of Manchester & Salford 1886 Alphabetical part 1 and there on page 435 are the sisters as Householders living at what looks like 158 Hendham and Queens Road.  All official documents that I can find on the sisters (marriage & death certificates but unfortunately no birth certifictes) refer to their father as Herbert Wilberforce, Licensed Victualler.

When I realised that there was a hotel at this road junction, and the street number was 1, 3, 5 I wondered if this belong to a family member, but Job & Martha Page appear to have been the landlords throughout this time period.

I won't repeat all my Wilberforce research here, but the conclusion reached by all was that the sisters appear to be hiding their past, very possibly by a name change and that the name Wilberforce, and more especially father Herbert could be fictitious.  If I could prove that there was never a Herbert Wilberforce born in the early 1800 who ran a pub/hotel then I could put this matter to rest once and for all and accept that this branch of the family is a dead end.

If you do have access to The Brewers Sessions and could check for any listing for a Herbert Wilberforce I would be very appreciative.

Thank you

Wilbs

[wilcoxon]

So far I`ve found nothing at all. The  only Herbert Wilberforce seems to be linked to the slave trade.
Search for Brewster Sessions only gives me what I`ve already found, maybe they called them something else after, but even so the name doesn`t show.
The only remote link is this.
BURGLARIES AT MOSS SIDE .
Manchester Times Friday, July 7, 1899;
William Wilberforce Taylor licencee of the Prince of Wales Hotel

Ida and Grace just don`t seem to exist, very odd.  I did find Ida`s burial but she is entered as Ada,
BMD date matches so I think it must be her.
Was she Catholic ?
BMD Ida Wilberforce. ***
Liverpool Catholic Burials
Ada Wilberforce Birth Year  1841
Age:70 Death Year: abt 1911
Burial Date: 12 Feb 1911
Parish: Yew Tree Cemetery

There are MI`s on this site, but no search option  and it does seem not all sections have been transcribed, scroll down to bottom of page.
http://www.yewtreecemetery.co.uk/

A quick look shows many of the families are Irish descent.
http://www.yewtreecemetery.co.uk/pdf/Yew_Tree_Sec_1A.pdf

Not much help I`m afraid. It does look like the ladies were quite well off, they would have to pay for inclusion in the Directories.
As for Ida` occupation, a bit of Googling found this.
A relief stamper was involved in producing embossed writing paper, envelopes
1891 90 Handel St Toxteth
Ida Wilberforce 46 retired relief stamper b India 1841
Grace Wilberforce 39 born London Hammersmith  1852
Mary A Burns 2 neice b Liverpool c 1899

I`ll see if I can find anything linked to the address in 1886.  I have heard that directories were printed  about a year after they were drawn up, so the sisters may have been somewhere else by 1886. Not that it makes much difference here. 

[heywood]

Hi Wilbs,

I remembered Ida and Grace well when I saw your post    .  I even had another look round today to see if somehow we had missed something.

Wilcoxon,
the previous work is here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=420868.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=542177.0

It would be great to find something new.

heywood

[Wilbs]

Thank you Heywood & Wilcoxon for your help.  Even the detail that the ladies may have been well off moves us slightly forward.  The house they lived in in Liverpool seems to have been substantial by Victorian standards so this matches.  And yes, Catholic, which surprised us all, especially as Grace later marries an Irish Protestant.

I wondered for some time if there was a connection to Henry William Wilberforce, (1807 - 1873) the Anglican Clergyman who later converted to the Catholic Church.  There doesn't seem to be a bloodline but maybe the sisters knew or admired his work and adopted his name. The timeframe is correct and Herbert/Henry as a father figure

I got excited for a while over sisters Agnes (1844) and Grace (1856) Smith from Arbroath, Scotland but these ladies were not mine.

The only others on my to-do list are Amelia Wilberforce (born 1844 in Leeds) living with niece Hester Whittaker (born 1860 in Leeds).  Amelia's parents however are Joseph & Mary and she was baptized CofE so I can almost dismiss this entry.

I also came across a Grace and Ida who were nuns/novices serving together but I need to visit my very old notes.

Sorry I'm rambling again, but this branch of the family is so frustrating.Thank you all for your help and interest.  U3A lunch today so that will take my mind off things.

Best wishes

Wilbs

[Wilbs]

Me again.

Sorry my Catholic Nun theory has gone.  The ladies concerned were Grace Cowper born Hammersmith in 1854 and Ada Bellamy born London 1845.  I have traced them forward thought the 1891, 1901 & 1911 censuses so they are not mine.

Best wishes
wilbs

[heywood]

Just reading over the old threads. Did you ever find Mary Ida's baptism - not that it helps much. Mum is formerly  Wilberforce and godmother is Ida Wilberforce! They kept themselves to themselves