Thomas Williams of Robertstown / Tresalem, Aberdare moved to Patagonia.

[Fragorand]

Thank you again Morganllan.  I'm awaiting a birth certificate for one of their children which should hopefully provide me with information as to whether I've got the right family.  I'm sure I have now.  The other child had a middle name too which only brought up a few results for the Merthyr registration district....a David James Williams, born in 1871.  He died a young man of around 19 years old in Buenos Aires suffering from typhoid feaver.   This is on his gravestone in Gaiman, Patagonia......"Er cof anwyl am David James, mab Thomas S. a Mary Williams Tresalem, yr hwn a fu farw yn Buenos Aires, Meh. 6, 1890, yn 19 ml. oed."  On a side note.....they also lost at least  one other child in Patagonia as well as losing Mary Williams herself through illness aboard a ship returning to Wales.  Life was obviously hard.

If I've the correct family, they lived in Phillip St., Tresalem / Robertstown.  Looking at the google map, it's only 3-4 kms from Moriah Chapel so it's quite possible the people mentioned in your link include the ones I'm researching although I'm not sure what denomination they were*.  Thanks again.

*I've been told that all of the Welsh denominations have a common burial ground outside of Gaiman so there were no clues there.

[Morganllan]

OK, let us know how you get on once you have the birth certificate. 

[Fragorand]

I got the certificate today and the name of the child which I knew Thomas and Mary had matches up to the address which I suspected was their home and whole residents' names match the couple I'm looking for.  I've found out the Mary's former surname was Griffiths and in 1861 and 1871 it states on the Census form that she was born in Llanboidy.  I've looked for a Mary Griffiths matching this information ie Mary Griffiths dob 1840 and born in Llanboidy.  The best fit I get in 1841 is a Mary Griffiths born in Llanglydwen which is in the sub-district of Llanboidy and born 1840 when she is 7 months old.  In 1851 she appears again but with a middle name this time......Mary Anne Griffiths.  Then in 1861, she's with Thomas Williams in Aberdare.  The two things that I'm a little 'concerned' about is that in the first two censuses she's born in the parish of Llanglydwen which is in the sub-district of Llanboidy....and I'm not sure what to make  of the middle name.  It doesn't appear on her tomb-stone.  If she's the one.....she doesn't actually live in either Llanglydwen or Llanboidy but on a small-holding which is 4.5 miles from Llanboidy and 1 mile from Llanglydwen.   If I've got the right person.....why in 1861 would the Census state her place of birth as Llanboidy?  I suppose they would rely on what Mary herself would tell the person filling out the form?   Any suggestions fellow researchers?

Also Morganllan, that link you gave me to the National Library Archives appears to be related.  There was a Rev John Caerenig Davies who had links with Llandybie and was a miner in east Carmarthenshire and then went to preach at Moriah Chapel in Aberdare.  He then left for Patagonia in 1874 taking a number of his parishioners with him.  And apparently, when Mary Williams died, her widowed husband Thomas later married Rev Davies' sister.  So thank you for that information.  I'll visit Aberystwyth some time.  The rest of the information came from my friend in Argentina ie his marriage to the Reverend's sister.

PS Should I now move this to the Carmarthenshire area for we appear to be done for the moment in Glamorganshire?

[Morganllan]

Now looking for Mary Griffiths, born 1840 Llanboidy, who married Thomas Williams and moved to Patagonia! 

Have you found a likely marriage for them? May be worth looking at one in Merthyr district in 1859, provided that it is Aberdare and Thomas is a coal miner.

Merthyr T 11a 480

P.S. Moved to Carmarthenshire board

[Fragorand]

Now looking for Mary Griffiths, born 1840 Llanboidy, who married Thomas Williams and moved to Patagonia! 

Have you found a likely marriage for them? May be worth looking at one in Merthyr district in 1859, provided that it is Aberdare and Thomas is a coal miner.

Merthyr T 11a 480

P.S. Moved to Carmarthenshire board

I had been looking for a marriage for them in Carmarthenshire to tell you the truth Morganllan.  I have them in Aberdare in 1871 and also I believe in 1861.  Yes, he was a miner.  I thought that both being Carmarthenshire people.....although living quite a distance from each other that they would have met and married in their old county and then moved to Aberdare in search for work in the coal mines.  I didn't think they would have gone together out of wedlock if you know what I mean?  And I felt that a male might well find himself in Aberdare as a bachelor but not a female.  I hope I make sense.  But I might be totally wrong.  Thank you.  I'll take a look at that.

PS How do you know this man was a miner in the reference you provide?

[Morganllan]

Hello 

I just thought that perhaps Mary had moved with her parents to Aberdare, and then met Thomas. I think that is more likely than a Llanboidy girl meeting a Llandybie boy in Carmarthenshire, but I may be wrong.

There is one example of such a Griffiths family moving from Llanboidy/Llanglydwen to Aberdare, who appear on the 1851 census.

Mill Street, Aberdare

James Griffiths Head age 42 born Llanfrynach, Pembrokeshire        Hooper
Anna Griffiths Wife age 44 born Llanboidy, Carmarthenshire
David Griffiths Son age 22 born Llanboidy, Carmarthenshire           Miner
William Griffiths Son age 14 born Llanglydwen, Carmarthenshire     Miner
Mary Griffiths Dau age 9 born Llanglydwen, Carmarthenshire
Phebe Griffiths Dau age 7 born Llanglydwen, Carmarthenshire
Daniel Griffiths Son age 3 born Aberdare, Glamorgan
John Griffiths Lodger age 22  born Llanglydwen, Carmarthenshire    Miner
William Morgan Lodger age 25  born Llanfrynach, Pembrokeshire     Miner
Benjamin James Lodger age    27  born Llanfrynach, Pembrokeshire   Carpenter

HO107 Piece 2460 Folio 449 Page 31

I knew that Thomas was a miner from the 1861 census 

Best Regards
Morgan

[Fragorand]

Thank you Morganllan.  I guess the next step would be for me to get their marriage certificate?  The one you gave the index reference to earlier?

Ha....look at them.  They seem to have taken half of Llanfyrnach in as lodgers.  And the minister from Llandybie went there too before taking many of his congregation with him to Patagonia.  I think these people are fascinating.  It's strange but this is the same area as some of my ancestors come from.  Some of them were also Griffiths.

Oh yes....regarding the family above, Mary Griffiths is 9 years old in 1851 which would make her dob around 1842.  In later censuses as being born according to her age in 1840 and on her tomb stone too.  Is it common for such a margin of error?

[Morganllan]

"..regarding the family above, Mary Griffiths is 9 years old in 1851 which would make her dob around 1842.  In later censuses as being born according to her age in 1840 and on her tomb stone too.  Is it common for such a margin of error?

I think it may be worth getting the marriage certificate, but remember to specify the likely area so that you don't get a Merthyr marriage.   

Re the age of Mary Griffiths, if she was born in 1840 she could be 10 years old in 1851 if her birthday was later than 31st March. That would mean a small discrepancy of 1 year between 1851 and later census records.

[Fragorand]

Thanks again Morganllan. :-)