Author Topic: Help to find a marriage please(***Completed with thanks***)  (Read 21172 times)

Offline Dundee

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,446
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help to find a marriage please?
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 20 July 13 15:32 BST (UK) »
Sydney's Boer War dossier, 7 Jan 1902:

Are you married? No

What is your permanent address?  36 O'Grady Street, Clifton Hill, Victoria.

http://dhistory.org/archives/naa/items/688903/

Debra  :)

Offline ~MERLIN~

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,466
    • View Profile
Re: Help to find a marriage please?
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 20 July 13 15:52 BST (UK) »
1903 VIC Electoral Roll.

All living at 36 O'Grady St, Clifton Hill:
BROWN Henry - labourer
CORBETT Mary - home duties
MOORE Richard - hatter
WOODLAND Margaret - home duties
WOODLAND Sydney - Clerk


Offline keinname

  • I am sorry I am unable to receive notifications at the moment mailbox full
  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
    • View Profile
Re: Help to find a marriage please?
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 20 July 13 23:18 BST (UK) »
Ted,

There has to be some reason why Margaret did not marry Sydney Woodland, why she did not register the birth of Sydney Walter Woodland when he was born about 1892, and why Ada's birth was registered as illegitimate. The likely reason is that either Sydney Woodland or Margaret were already married. As Margaret's first 4 children to Michael Moore were all registered as legitimate births with full details of the father it strongly suggests that Margaret was already married to Michael Moore, and that this is the reason why she could not marry Sydney Woodland.

The index for Ada's birth, with no father being named in the index, clearly shows that Ada's birth was considered to be illegitimate by the registrar who recorded the details:
Corbett, Ada Woodland
Father: Corbett
Mother: Margt Corben(sic)
1894 
Cranborne
#19835R
Moore, Ada Woodland
Father: Moore
Mother: Margt Corbett
Cranborne
#19835R

The actual birth registration shows other clues that you may be able to use. This is because the birth registration gives a date and place for Margaret's marriage to Michael Moore.

When and where born:
28th May 1894
Langmarine
Shire of Cranborne
County of Mornington
Name and whether present of not:
Ada Woodland
not present
(Note: no surnames recorded in this column)
Sex:
Female
Name & Profession of Father, Age & birthplace of Father:
Illegitimate
When & where married, Issue Living & deceased (of this marriage):
8th January 1879, Sherwood
(Note: Just days before Margaret's 16th birthday)
Cornelius 14
Richard 13
Mary 11
Maggie 9
(Note: Sydney Walter not listed as he is not a child of this marriage)
THIS SECTION THEN CROSSED OUT AND WRITTEN ACROSS IT:
Cancelled, Illegitimate
Name and maiden surname of Mother, Age & birthplace of Mother:
Margaret Moore nee Corbett
31 years, Sherwood
Signature, descriptive & address of Informant:
Margaret Moore
mother
Somerville
after declaration made as by law required*
Witness of birth:
Mrs Wiltshire
When & where registered:
21st August 1894, Cranborne
Signature of Deputy Register:
M Duff
acting registrar

*1st time I have ever seen this written, and it is not on the certificates above of below. I am guessing that Margaret wanted to have Ada's birth registered with Sydney Woodland shown as the father and that the registrar would not allow this, but did allow Ada to have the name Woodland registered as one of the first names.


I was not expecting to find details of the marriage to Michael Moore on Ada's birth registration as it shouldn't have been recorded there. (I was going to suggest that you purchase Cornelius's 1880 birth registration to get marriage details, but now you won't have to.) The place called Sherwood appears to be a place that was called either Sherwood or Sherwood Park (unless Sherwood Park refered only to the race track at Sherwood - see following) and from street names existing to day appears to have been near Cranborne. All I have been able to find out for sure is that a town named Sherwood did exist in Victoria, and that they once held races there.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/70009706 (Apr 1877 - also mentions Sherwood Hotel)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/11566437 (1886 - refered to as Sherwood Park)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/70012721 (Apr 1891 - refered to as Sherwood)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/8512901 (Feb 1893 - refered to as Sherwood Park)
& many more references in between these dates to races at Sherwood or Sherwood Park

Not all marriages made it into the official records. Sometimes the minister forgot to send in the details. This appears to be one of those marriages. Your best bet woult be to track down the parish registers for all the churches in Sherwood in 1879 if you want to see the original record of the marriage. Perhaps another rootschatter can tell you if there is a way to do this.





Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,385
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: Help to find a marriage please?
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 21 July 13 01:19 BST (UK) »
.....
Corbett, Ada Woodland
Father: Corbett
Mother: Margt Corben(sic)
1894 
Cranborne
#19835R
Moore, Ada Woodland
Father: Moore
Mother: Margt Corbett
Cranborne
#19835R
.....
after declaration made as by law required*

*1st time I have ever seen this written, and it is not on the certificates above of below. I am guessing that Margaret wanted to have Ada's birth registered with Sydney Woodland shown as the father and that the registrar would not allow this, but did allow Ada to have the name Woodland registered as one of the first names.
......
I was not expecting to find details of the marriage to Michael Moore on Ada's birth registration as it shouldn't have been recorded there.........
Not all marriages made it into the official records. Sometimes the minister forgot to send in the details. This appears to be one of those marriages. Your best bet woult be to track down the parish registers for all the churches in Sherwood in 1879 if you want to see the original record of the marriage. Perhaps another rootschatter can tell you if there is a way to do this.

I am not that familiar with Vic BDM records, but I think that the "R" is for REVISED, meaning that there has been a revision made to the information supplied initially.   

Here's a thread where the question re "after declaration made as ......" has been posed and answered...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,609530.msg4588687.html#msg4588687

ADDING ....
this one too
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=552137.0

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.


Offline wivenhoe

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,724
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help to find a marriage please?
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 21 July 13 02:30 BST (UK) »

Anything useful here?....

South Burke and Mornington Journal (Richmond, Vic) 15 Jun 1887

Griffith Point Police Court…..Mary Corbett v. Michael Moore; illegal detention of goods valued at £49-Mr. F.


The Argus 14 Jun 1932      WOODLAND.-On the 13th June, at her residence 36, Rutland street, Clifton Hill, Margaret,  beloved wife of Sydney Woodland and dearly beloved   mother of Con Moore (W.A), Dick Moore,  Sis (Mrs. James Clarkson), Chick (Mrs. E. Kingston),  Ada (Mrs. V.W.Bull) and Walter Woodland, aged 69 years. Requieseat in pace. (W.A. papers, please copy)

Offline cando

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 22,360
    • View Profile
Re: Help to find a marriage please?
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 21 July 13 03:10 BST (UK) »
The correct spelling of the Shire is Cranbourne not Cranborne. 

Quote
When and where born:
28th May 1894
Langmarine
Shire of Cranborne
County of Mornington

Quote
When & where registered:
21st August 1894, Cranborne

So born in May 1894 and registered in August 1894. 

Quote
Ada Woodland
not present
(Note: no surnames recorded in this column)

The surname is not recorded in this column, only given names.  The surname of the father in the next column is the child's surname ie if a father's name is noted.

Quote
*1st time I have ever seen this written, and it is not on the certificates above of below. I am guessing that Margaret wanted to have Ada's birth registered with Sydney Woodland shown as the father and that the registrar would not allow this, but did allow Ada to have the name Woodland registered as one of the first names.
If the registrations above and below were registered within the prescribed period following a birth, this note would not appear.

I have many Victorian birth certificates with this notation including my paternal grandfather.

A couple of examples NB these are not my family but others on the same pages of the many Victorian birth certificates I hold.



Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,385
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: Help to find a marriage please?
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 21 July 13 03:22 BST (UK) »
This is the link to RChat's Unwanted BDM certificate threads 

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,153.0.html

Perhaps there could be other RChatters in the future who would be interested in the info for any of the babies whose 1894 births are registered on the document    :)


Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline sparrett

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 18,889
    • View Profile
Re: Help to find a marriage please?
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 21 July 13 03:28 BST (UK) »
 
 
 
Quote
*1st time I have ever seen this written, and it is not on the certificates above of below. I am guessing that Margaret wanted to have Ada's birth registered with Sydney Woodland shown as the father and that the registrar would not allow this, but did allow Ada to have the name Woodland registered as one of the first names.
If the registrations above and below were registered within the prescribed period following a birth, this note would not appear.

I have many Victorian birth certificates with this notation including my paternal grandfather.

A couple of examples NB these are not my family but others on the same pages of the many Victorian birth certificates I hold.




[/quote]

So are you saying, Cando, that the notation has nothing to do with the wishes of the mother regarding child's surname, but is to do with the time lapsed between birth and registration?

Sue
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline cando

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 22,360
    • View Profile
Re: Help to find a marriage please?
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 21 July 13 03:35 BST (UK) »

Quote
*1st time I have ever seen this written, and it is not on the certificates above of below. I am guessing that Margaret wanted to have Ada's birth registered with Sydney Woodland shown as the father and that the registrar would not allow this, but did allow Ada to have the name Woodland registered as one of the first names.
If the registrations above and below were registered within the prescribed period following a birth, this note would not appear.

I have many Victorian birth certificates with this notation including my paternal grandfather.

A couple of examples NB these are not my family but others on the same pages of the many Victorian birth certificates I hold.


So are you saying, Cando, that the notation has nothing to do with the wishes of the mother regarding child's surname, but is to do with the time lapsed between birth and registration?

Sue
[/quote]

Yes that's correct.  I can't recall the prescribed period that births must be registered after the event.  Will see if I can find it when I get a moment.

Sands and MacDougall Victorian Directory
1904
CLIFTON HILL
O'Grady Street - North Side

36  MOORE.  Mrs Margt

Cheers :)
Cando
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk