Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: What does the cross on his uniform sleeve represent  (Read 4740 times)

Offline mahalia

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 997
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
What does the cross on his uniform sleeve represent
« on: Wednesday 17 July 13 01:10 BST (UK) »
Can any one help shed any light on  this photo for me.  It has only recently been sent to me and is all I have and it is very small and not clear.  I am wondering if it could perhaps be a Army Chaplain/Padre insignia.

I have no idea whether my Uncle had religious connections or not but do know that prior to his marriage my Grandfather (Lyonells father) had trained for the priesthood.  But he was killed when Lyonell was only a young boy.

I am wondering what the cross on the sleeve signifies -  it appears he held the rank of Sergeant???
Family have always claimed that my Uncle Lyonell/Leo/Lionell Fildes was one of the Rats of Tobruk which I have never been able to verify - I have also heard that he fought in Africa.  Haven't been able to verify that either, but do know that he was with the Royal Engineers.  In fact I have han no success at all finding any trace of his military history.  This is the first time I have ever seen a picture of him in Uniform and wonder if anyone might be able to throw any light on it.  The picture would have been taken around the time of WWII - Lyonell was born in 1918.

Cheers

Maureen
The Scribbly Bark Poet
Check out my blog site here:

 http://scribblybarkpoetry.blogspot.com.au/

searching for information on Lyonell Fildes - Lancashire area and the Bower/Jacklin family - Middlesex area related to Victor George Bower Jacklin also information relating to Winifred Jacklin nee Clark also William Young Clark and Emily Clarke nee Gristwood from the Surrey area around Chalfont St Giles

Information on Clifford family from Lithgow area of NSW with links to UK
Information on Dobe famil

Offline mmm45

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,230
    • View Profile
Re: What does the cross on his uniform sleeve represent
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 17 July 13 01:28 BST (UK) »
Its an Army Divisional Patch possibly 1st Army but hard to make out think they had different colours

His record will still be with MOD ...you can apply for copy it costs 30 pounds and long wait



Ady
Lowe(Lower Gornall-Castleford)
Blackburn (Castleford)
Sidwell(Ledsham)
Fairburn(Hartshead)
Wood(Liversedge)
Tallon (Whittington Lancs/Hartshead West Yorkshire)

Researching all Great War soldiers from the Spen Valley of West Yorkshire Especially lads from the Cleckheaton Company of 1/4th West Riding Regiment.

Offline barryd

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,709
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: What does the cross on his uniform sleeve represent
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 17 July 13 05:15 BST (UK) »
As far as I know all branches of the services in any country that had Chaplains/Padres the person appointed would become an officer. Some had assistants who were just ordinary servicemen (or I suppose officers) who would help them. I have a book with a photograph of Christopher Chavasse a Chaplain during WW1  dressed in his army uniform, complete with Sam Browne belt. The only item different from other officers at that time is his clerical collar. Another photograph later in the war was Christopher with Noel his brother (Noel Chavasse VC and Bar). Both are dressed identically with Noel wearing a Sam Brown Belt, Christopher is not wearing one. Christopher has his clerical collar on.

Online gaffy

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,018
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: What does the cross on his uniform sleeve represent
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 17 July 13 06:18 BST (UK) »
Agree with reply #1, rather then any chaplain / padre connection (I could be wrong!  :)).

It looks simply like a formation badge, in design not unlike a crusader shield in which case it might be 1st or 2nd army.  Would plump for 1st army as it was involved in the North Africa landings - which would tie in with the family claim.

Offline brummie nick

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 161
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: What does the cross on his uniform sleeve represent
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 18 July 13 07:38 BST (UK) »
Have a look at this site for a picture of the badge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Army_%28United_Kingdom%29

Offline Billyblue

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,066
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: What does the cross on his uniform sleeve represent
« Reply #5 on: Friday 19 July 13 03:37 BST (UK) »
I always thought that 'Rats of Tobruk' was the name adopted by Australian soldiers.
Even though there were also British troops there at the time.

Could he have been in the Australian Army by any chance?
Have you looked for his War record there?

Dawn M
Denys (France); Rossier/Rousseau (Switzerland); Montgomery (Antrim, IRL & North Sydney NSW);  Finn (Co.Carlow, IRL & NSW); Wilson (Leicestershire & NSW); Blue (Sydney NSW); Fisher & Barrago & Harrington(all Tipperary, IRL)

Offline mahalia

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 997
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: What does the cross on his uniform sleeve represent
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 21 July 13 05:48 BST (UK) »
Thanks everyone for your help.  He was never in the Australian Army - rumour was he was in South Africa at some stage of the war.  Might apply for those records Ady suggested and see how I go from there.  That does look like the badge  Brummie Nick.  Algeria is in Africa too I think so that could well be it.

Cheers

Maureen
Check out my blog site here:

 http://scribblybarkpoetry.blogspot.com.au/

searching for information on Lyonell Fildes - Lancashire area and the Bower/Jacklin family - Middlesex area related to Victor George Bower Jacklin also information relating to Winifred Jacklin nee Clark also William Young Clark and Emily Clarke nee Gristwood from the Surrey area around Chalfont St Giles

Information on Clifford family from Lithgow area of NSW with links to UK
Information on Dobe famil

Offline IMBER

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,006
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: What does the cross on his uniform sleeve represent
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 21 July 13 08:33 BST (UK) »
Quote from: Billyblue on Friday 19 July 13 03:37 BST (UK)
I always thought that 'Rats of Tobruk' was the name adopted by Australian soldiers.
Even though there were also British troops there at the time.

Could he have been in the Australian Army by any chance?
Have you looked for his War record there?

Dawn M

The term was applied to all Allied forces who served in Tobruk at that time, even after the majority of Australian forces had been withdrawn.

Imber
Skewis (Wales and Scotland), Ayers (Maidenhead, Berkshire), Hildreth (Berkshire)

Offline Billyblue

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,066
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: What does the cross on his uniform sleeve represent
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 21 July 13 11:10 BST (UK) »
"The term was applied to all Allied forces who served in Tobruk at that time, even after the majority of Australian forces had been withdrawn"

Really?!  ??? ??? ???

While Lord Haw-Haw may have applied it to all the Allied forces in Tobruk, I've only ever seen references of the Australian Army adopting it as 'their own'.  It is commemorated at the Australian War Memorial in Canberra.  All the Rats of Tobruk Associations I've found listed are in Australia???
What have I missed?
Dawn M
Denys (France); Rossier/Rousseau (Switzerland); Montgomery (Antrim, IRL & North Sydney NSW);  Finn (Co.Carlow, IRL & NSW); Wilson (Leicestershire & NSW); Blue (Sydney NSW); Fisher & Barrago & Harrington(all Tipperary, IRL)
Pages: [1] 2