What does the cross on his uniform sleeve represent

[gaffy]

My understanding is that the name applies to all Allied troops who held Tobruk in 1941, over half (14,000) included Australian troops, but the rest (some 12,000) being British and Indian armoured / artillery / cavalry.

Over a few months from August 1941, the Australian and Indian troops were withdrawn by sea and replaced by a British / Polish / Czechoslovak force.

Edited to add: It might be one of those labels that has evolved over time, I imagine that the deciding factor is that if a British or Indian soldier who held Tobruk in 1941 deemed himself one of the "Rats of Tobruk", then who's to argue?

[mmm45]

And it may have been confused with Desert Rat......nickname of Eighth Army in North Africa


Ady

[Billyblue]

Have a look at some of the websites on the subject.

Dawn M

[gaffy]

Lord Haw Haw aimed the "rats" insult at the whole garrison, however there is plenty to suggest that of the 26,000 Allied defenders, it was the 14,000 Australians who coined and to this day have embraced more than any the phrase "rats of Tobruk".

However, my understanding remains that the phrase doesn't exclude the 12,000 British Troops and Indian Cavalry that served there, there are plenty of references in websites akin to the following:   
 
"The name 'Rats of Tobruk' was well earned by Australians and the other commonwealth forces defending Tobruk..."

"Australian troops, some of the famed Rats of Tobruk..."

"The Rats of Tobruk hold an identifiable place within the ranks of returned servicemen, particularly in Australia..."

"The Allies numbered around 26,000 of Australian and British soldiers, with no air support. The Allies nevertheless repelled the Germans for 242 days and eventually drove them back. Nicknamed "the poor desert rats of Tobruk" by German propagandist Lord Haw-Haw, the soldiers adopted the name themselves..."

Here's a first hand account from a then British Army soldier serving in the RAOC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/68/a4513268.shtml

[IMBER]

Have a look at some of the websites on the subject.

Dawn M

Oh dear, I do hope I’m not giving the appearance of point scoring.  As a family historian I tend to stick to facts – sometimes that runs counter to popular military “history”. I doubt there’s a single military episode in WW2 that hasn’t been skewed one way or the other from the boring facts. Yes, I have looked at the websites. Most of them are Australian and tend to dwell on the Aussie angle. Quite rightly. The large numbers of Australian troops at Tobruk played a very prominent and vital part in its defence. That was a major achievement for which the Australian nation was rightly proud. It’s probably fair to say that it became of greater significance to Australia than perhaps to the British in that the sheer size of the British forces involved in WW2 meant that of necessity it was involved in a much larger range of conflicts and which would tend to dilute any focus on one event (with the obvious exceptions of the earliest conflicts such as Dunkirk and the Battle of Britain). Tobruk was a major symbol to Australians of their contribution to the defeat of the Axis powers. It must also be borne in mind that this label was cemented by the release in 1944 of the Australian film Rats of Tobruk.  Do you think there might be some possibility that you might be more exposed to Australian commemoration of this episode given that you seem to live in the Brisbane area?

I don’t really have any time for blowing national trumpets. When I worked for the Commonwealth War Graves Commission my work, as an employee of the Australian and other governments, put me in regular contact with the Australian High Commissioner and his staff and my concern was for the commemoration of all. Their nationality was secondary but accuracy was paramount. What’s not in doubt is that the many nationalities in the 8th Army ultimately achieved their objective in halting then ejecting the enemy from North Africa, albeit at a terrible cost. As regards the question posed by mahalia it would seem that the link provided by gaffy suggests that the few facts available to mahalia may have some credibility.

Imber

[Billyblue]

Where I live, Imber, has nothing to do with my origins.

Dawn M

[barryd]

I know it is politically incorrect to judge a person by their appearances but Lyonell looks more like a soldier in the background of War. Remember John Kipling, Rudyard's son who was believed to have lost his glasses in his first day in action during WW1 and was killed. How many front line soldiers wore glasses is perhaps a question better answered by a military expert.

[alanmack]

Hi,
    Here's my twopenn'orth.

I've recently read a book which contains a considerable chunk about Tobruk and its siege. Called "The Phantom Army of Alamein" by Rick Stroud, it centres on the activities of the Royal Engineers Camouflage Sections.

Also to judge from appearances, Lyonell strikes me as an "artistic type" who as a possible Sapper Sgt might well have been in one of the Camouflage Section in Tobruk which were greatly responsible for keeping the Afrika Korps out for the 242 days. Read the book and see how!

One other point that came up earlier; strictly speaking (pedantically, even) "Desert Rats" applies only to members of 7th Armoured Division, not the whole of the 8th Army.

Alan