Shipping transit times

[Jaznjjj]

Have had a chance to do a bit more. The Ferguson site is excellent - thank you!   Richard Bruce was paid up on his date of discharge (31st October, 1848) so it doesn't look like he received an early mark to catch an earlier ship. 

I am now thinking it is more likely if the family transhipped from Sydney to another Australian port to travel to the U.K. that such a port is likely to be Port Phillip or Launceston, rather than Moreton Bay.  Am I right, that most ships would have sailed via the Cape of Good Hope between Australia and the U.K.?  I also have to explore the possibility that the family left from Port Adelaide.  The problem is that the timing is so tight. 

Revisiting:  none of the ships which left Sydney in November/December arrived in the U.K. in time for the family to land and then return on the Childe Harold.  So I'm looking for a fast ship from one of the other Australian ports.

[Billyblue]

I didn't mean a sad face to go in at the end.  It was supposed to be three question marks.  J

The shorthand for a 'confused' smiley is 3 question marks. That's why you got it.
So if you just want to mean a query, better to use 2 or 4 question marks.    

bI am now thinking it is more likely if the family transhipped from Sydney to another Australian port to travel to the U.K. that such a port is likely to be Port Phillip or Launceston, rather than Moreton Bay.  Am I right, that most ships would have sailed via the Cape of Good Hope between Australia and the U.K.?   

They almost all came around the Cape.  There was no Suez Canal then, and coming via South America was even more hazardous, I believe.  So I learnt at school 60 years ago!      

Dawn M

[Jaznjjj]

Laughter!   Hmm, I originally thought LOL meant Lots of Love. 

I haven't progressed further with the search for the ship - just taking a deep breath.  The other proposition is that the family left before the date of the discharge from the regiment - but the pay books indicate that he was discharged and paid on the 31st October in Sydney so that appears to be a dead-end. That payment included12 months gratuity which would have given the family the means to travel. I have to find out how much a passage from Australia to the U.K. is likely to have cost.  His pay-rate copied in below which I haven't quite worked out yet.  Oh!  now I may have to do calculations in pounds shillings and pence (also learned about 60 years ago) to work out his grauity.  Which raises the question of the currency which would have been received at his payout and how and when and if it might have been exchanged for English Pounds when the family reached the U.K.   Questions keep springing up like weeds! 

"Bruce - Richard 1848.  Voucher 26 546/1122
1/10 - 31/10 = 31 days + 2d. p.diem + 3½ d. p.day on shore.
Discharged - 31 October, received a gratuity of 12 months pay."

I have been in touch with Westpac archives on the off-chance they have some record of the family.  There is an R. Bruce in their index who opened an account in 1847.  I have requested further information (also regarding my other Sydney families).  The archivist also told me there were over 20 banks in existence in the colony at about that time. 

Jennifer (imagine a smiley here)

[Billyblue]

In the 1840s I think they were still using British pounds for currency - other than things like the holey dollar etc., or rum.

The pay rate of 2d. per diem means two pence per day and there were 240 pence to the pound.

Presumably they got more when on shore leave because they had to pay for their accommodation (a bit like holiday pay these days??     )

His 'gratuity of 12 months pay' would thus have been at least 2d x 365 =    730 pence or 3 pounds and tenpence.  But more if they paid him at the shore leave rate.

How much did a voyage Australia to UK cost in 1840s?  Well, the bounty immigrants from Uk to Australia were paid for at the rate of 15 pounds per adult which presumably gave the agents reimbursement for their passage plus some profit.   I have an idea passage was somewhere around 5 pounds but stand to be corrected by someone more knowledgeable      

Dawn M

[Jaznjjj]

Hmmm, the more I think about it, the more I think the sums don't compute.  Passage both ways for two adults and two children therefore would be upward of twenty pounds.  Even if I triple Richard's takehome pay (= about ten pound) per annum and allow that as his grauity as well, it falls way short of what is needed for the journey unless he had some other source of funds.  So much evidence points to the Childe Harold sailing from Plymouth direct to Port Adelaide!  For the sake of thoroughness I need to check if that vessel did in fact touch at Sydney and pick up the family. Given the usual routes travelled from the U.K. to Australia it seems unlikely that the Childe Harold would touch first at Sydney, and then backtrack to Port Adelaide. The time frame is overly tight for this to happen as well.  Another possibility is a fast transit via Cape Horn instead of Cape of Good Hope though east-west appears not to have been how it was done usually.   I have more to do to solve this (including Log of Logs).  Jennifer

[Malcolm33]

      What is interesting is that the cost of passage didn't increase all that much in a hundred years from say 1840 to 1937.     I recall looking at some very old brochures we still had on file at Cooks Head Office in Melbourne, back in the late 1960's and the ads were from around 37 pounds in a 1937 brochure.     In 1956 I paid 88 pounds sterling to travel from Navarino Bay in Greece on the Oronsay to Melbourne and later that same year I went from Melbourne to Tilbury in the Orcades for 104 pounds sterling - 130 pounds Australian.  I still have the ticket signed and issued by my old friend George Franklin who is kicking on a bit now.   I worked with George then at the Orient Line in Collins Street.    So inflation had begun to take hold then.   Incidentally we could not hand over a passage ticket for overseas travel unless the client had first obtained a 'Tax Certificate' saying that they could leave the country.

[Jaznjjj]

One of the things I am finding most interesting is how much I am learning as I go along - even if it becomes a dead-end I am still the better for it.  Yes, 100 years without a significant rise in prices for travel by sea.  I learned (rightly or wrongly) years ago that up to  about 3% inflation was healthy growth in an economy - that no inflation equalled stagnation.  I guess economists have made pretty graphs about this.  J

[Jaznjjj]

I have an interest in finding out about sailing times in the other direction, from Sydney to the U.K. C1848. 

Jennifer

[~MERLIN~]

I have an interest in finding out about sailing times in the other direction, from Sydney to the U.K. C1848.

Depends on the type of ship (barque, clipper, schooner, etc), route taken & ports of call.
Do you have the name of the ship?
British newspapers advertised arrivals & departures the same as Australia.