Talbots of Ryton on Dunsmore

[Pat Orme]

Hello again, Linda,
I now have time to reply in full - puppy of 4 months has been distracted, and Grandparent duties are over until tomorrow. I thought it would be useful for you to know what has led me through Fillongley and Weston on Wetherley.
My paternal grandfather was Frederick George Orme 1884-1950, born in Moira, Derbyshire ( died in         
                                                                                                                            Nuneaton)
only child of Edmund John Orme 1854-1897 and Mary Jane Torbitt 1851-1936.
                  born in Harsthorne, Derbys.                   born Chilvers Coton, Nuneaton,
                                               both died in Ch.Coton, and were Grocers.
I'll now concentrate on the Talbot/Torbitt/Torbet line.
Mary Jane was the daughter of John Torbitt 1825-1877, and Jane Taylor 1824 - 1904;
Both died at Ch.C, and were Butchers. He was born just outside Nuneaton at Stockingford, she was born in Ch.C.
       John Torbitt, junior, was the son of John T. senior, also a Butcher, 1795-1895, born at Fillongley - not far from Nuneaton - and Catherine Bostock, 1796-1883; both were buried at Ch.C.
       NOW : John T. senior was the son of William T. 1763/1777 at Ryton, a Miller then a Yeoman, who married Mary Sammon(s) at Weston under Wetherley, 13th October, 1788.
Now, The above William's baptism is on 5th June, 1763 at Ryton, and the second, at Stretton, has the explanation - I quote from the parish register - March 5th Willm. Son of Harding & Eliz. Talbot of Rieton at the Age of 14 5th June next.
Which ties the 2 baptisms neatly together; I am grateful for you telling me of the 2 Hardings marrying the 2 Elizabeth Coakleys, and think that the above William is the son of the 2 younger ones.
        You asked about where Fillongley was, and the tombstone inscription - It's close to Nuneaton (where, incidentally, was where I was born) and states he was buried in 1837, and his wife, Mary, in 1854. I have photographs, and also a copy of an Obligation confirming that William WILL marry Mary Sammons with a Licence, guaranteed by Hanbury Newark, whoever he may be.
        I know William Sammons was wealthy, and have a copy of the land he owned in Weston u W.
and in his long and complicated Will of 1809, he leaves money and William T. (and Mary Sammons, his wife) live in a Mill in Fillongley - no longer there.
        Now we come to the more complicated early lines. I need a day, at least, to go over all our combined recent information, and will be meeting Jill Sparrow on Tuesday - her grandfather was my grandfather's executor and best friend. Her maiden name was Kelsey, and like me, she was a teacher.
         I hope to hear from you soon, and will send you the combined thoughts of Jill and I.
If there's anything you would like  checking in the Warwick County Record  Office let me know.
Pat.     

[lmgnz]

Hi Pat,

I have found my list of Ryton on Dunsmore Wills that I intended to order from the LDS and the 1818 will of Thomas Talbot and though it does not have a tick beside it in 1993 , I did find it in my 1994  notebook.

That will, written 1805, and proven to Elizabeth on 3 Apr 1818, was for Thomas Talbott husband of Elizabeth so not the Thomas Talbott who married Mary Saunders. That Thomas (married Saunders) though did have a Hardin/Harding in his family which is why people have assumed he was the Thomas  son of Hardin. As I mentioned before, it was Elizabeths will (wife of Thomas died 187/1818) that linked her to the Guntons.

Unfortunately for us our Thomas only names his wife Elizabeth, not his brother William or sister Ann, so does not confirm William's location in 1805. What you need is something that can positively identify William son of Hardin, as being in either Kenilworth or Fillongley. Are there Hardins in your William's family? I have found Fillongley on the map. Fillongley, Kenilworth and Weston u W do form a large triangle on the map.

I think the 1801 will for Hardin Talbott is the only one left that might be worth checking. I have a vague idea though that it was actually related to the 1784 will of Hardin senior. Found it! My notes say "vide will 8 Oct 1784. Looks like it was difficult to read on the microfilm but appears to be a sworn statement by Thomas Talbott and Richard Mills that they owe Richard Smallbroke 500 pounds. The date I have is 6 Feb 1801.

Cheers

Linda

[lmgnz]

I just checked when Thomas Talbot died. Burial recorded as Thomas Talbut, on 3 Mar 1818 at Ryton (age 60). Wife Elizabeth (61) also recorded as Talbut, bur 20 Apr 1830. I have not found the original note I made of her will, only an extract. The date on that extract is 8 Oct 1830. Hopefully that is the date the will was proven otherwise  she is not the Elizabeth who was buried in April 1830.

It would be good to know if there is anything relating to the William Talbot who married Elizabeth Ladbrook who may be the William who was buried 14 Apr 1820.

[Pat Orme]

Hello Linda,
It occurred to me that the William Talbot (a) whose dates and marriage you're verifying was of the same generation as my William Talbot's son, John (bapt. 1795) not 1763 of Hardin's son, my William (b)
The William born to Thomas and Mary was on 11th January, 1778; that is the William who married Elizabeth Ladbrook.
There is a marriage of a Thomas Talbot and Mary Coales in 1732 in Dunchurch. She appears to come from Thurlaston, and her father is possibly Joseph. The marriage may be a tad early, but they may have had a tribe of children. Thurlaston only built a church - it's just a hamlet really, and marriages took place in Dunchurch until 19th century, if I remember correctly.
It looks like we're connected until the Hardings. I'll look at Thomas and Mary marriages later, but I'm a Samaritan volunteer with a duty later tonight, so I shall stop now.
I hope this blathering is some use, and can get back into the WCRO later this week.
Best wishes, Pat, 
 

[lmgnz]

Hi Pat,

There are two ROD events for  the William I mentioned. The one that puts him in the same age bracket as your William, is his death in 1820 aged 55.so born at 1765.

Whether he was the William who married Elizabeth Ladbrook,  in 1803 ish is not certain. Now if they had only lived another 20 years!

The Hardin Talbot son of Thomas and Mary Saunders, appears to have worked a lock in Northampton shire.  He was there in 1840 . Will need to look him up in my tree to see where. I think Thomas was Kniveton
Cheers

[lmgnz]

Correction Harding son of Thomas and Mary was at Gt Berkhampstead Hertfordshire.

[Pat Orme]

Hello Linda,
               Met with my 'cousin' Jill Sparrow for coffee this morning; she's still trying to absorb everything.
              I'm looking forward to going into the WCRO at the end of the week with more specific events to check, and take photocopies. Need to absorb your latest info. this evening.
               Have found Boovy - instead of Bovey (Emblin, who married Richard Torbett, 2nd June, 1706) at Alcester and Bidfordon Avon. Only the surname so far, but worth following up.
              The older Elizabeth Coakley (widowed) was married to Henry Coakley, who died at Frankton, 30th October, 1743. He was the son, called Henrian, bapt.  at Baginton to Thomas and Joicse (Joyce, I presume) on 18th March, 1699, Another query to follow up.
Hope you're well, and not getting too cross-eyed with all these e-mails crossing the world!
Having a tooth out tomorrow - failed crown, so if I don't feel too well afterwards, I shall be sticking to the computer, and trying a couple of the Sammons' Wills, I've re-discovered!
Pat.

[lmgnz]

Hi Pat,

I sent you a personal message back when you only had 2 posts and couldn't use that function. Did you get it?  Allows us to exchange email addresses and not use the open forum.

I was planning to send you a transcript of Hardin's very long 1884 will if you had responded via a personal message.

Cheers

Linda

[lmgnz]

I have checked the list of trees in Ancestry that have William Talbott b 1778 son of Thomas Talbott and Mary Saunders and none of them have a spouse for William, so I do not know who he married.

Thomas was supposedly born in Kineton, son of John and Sarah but looking at a very extensive tree for John and Sarah of Kineton, there is no match to Thomas and Mary Saunders so I have my doubts.

I suspect the Thomas who married Mary Saunders belongs to the family one of the brothers of Hardin Talbot born 1708.