Talbots of Ryton on Dunsmore

[lmgnz]

Richard Talbot and Emlin Boudy or Bovey were married at Ryton on Dunsmore in 1706. 5th entry under the 1706 heading and just before one dated february.  The date looks like January which actually makes in 1707 by Gregorian calendar reckoning but back then (pre 1752) the new year didn't start until around March. Julian Calendar.

The switch to the Gregorian calendar was a bit unpopular with many people, including I think some of the clergy, and you find that many of them didn't record all the baptisms etc in the 1750s. This is why it is not a good idea to assume that the ones that were recorded are the only options when looking for baptsims about that time. Seems like the cleric in Ryton on Dunsmore was very diligent about their records.

[Pat Orme]

Hello Linda,
                I perhaps didn't make myself clear : I know where Richard Talbott and Emblin were married, and when - I understand the switch from Julian to Gregorian calendars - I want to find out about Emblin's family and when/where she was born.
                WCRO is always closed for the first week of every month for what they call ' Collections' - I guess it's when they put on file whatever has been accessed.
Pat.

[lmgnz]

Yes I did misunderstand as I thought you were referring to another marriage, Richard Torbett to ?Emlin Boovey in Alcester Jun 1706.

RE the gaps in baptisms etc I was mainly thinking of the trees that have for some reason taken Thomas of Ryton on Dunsmore and matched him up to a 1750 baptism in Kineton. That he called his firstborn son Hardin does put him into the Ryton on Dunsmore families.

Hardin seems to first appear with Emlins son Hardin born 1708.

I have a William Talbot born 1753, brother of Peggy, who is tentatively lined to the Leicesteshire family of Wiliam Talbott of Willoughby Waterlees. Again the name Hardin is the link, but as I mentioned, even with that link we cannot be sure he is the William born 1753 in Ryton on Dunsmore. By the time each sibling repeats the same names in their own families there could be more unseen clones around with the same name and same relatives.

Yes my head does get twisted by the possible permutations. I can't be sure I haven't made an incorrect assumption somewhere, such as that the Elizabeth Talbot who died 1830, was the wife of Hardin's grandson Thomas, and was Elizabeth Smith whose sister Catherine married Chaplin.

Or that Elizabeth's claiming probate on Thomas Talbott's will on 3 Apr 1818 supports that the Thomas Talbutt buried 3 mar 1818 was her husband, not the husband of Mary Saunders. I Judge that Thomas and Elizabeth did not have any family of their own but their marriage in 1784 was after the last of Thomas Talbot and Mary Saunder's children were born (Sarah born 1780). So it is possible that Elizabeth was Thomas's second wife provided Mary Saunders died between 1780 and 1784, and not in 1817 as in the other Ancestry trees.

Elizabeth Talbot who died 1830 certainly did not leave any money to her own children, nor any of her own relatives unless her nephew William Gunton was an actual blood nephew rather than her husband's nephew.

Cheers

Linda

[lmgnz]

I am not sure how much text I can post so I will divide the Will of Hardin Talbot into two. Part one:

Will of Hardin TALBOTT of Stretton on Dunsmore
At Coventry, 8 OCT 1784 (see also 16 FEB 1801)
........ direct my body to be buried at Ryton on Dunsmore....
To my grandchild Thomas £340 of good and lawful English money or the interest for his life. The first interest to be paid to my aforesaid grandchild Thomas TALBOT at twelve months after my decease. I also empower my trustees and executors if they see it convenient to give him the principle to put him in a way of business.
Also two pair of sheets, a twofold bedstead with blue and white furniture and curtains and bufet in the Palor, a looking glass, six cane chairs, the best great table, the grate in the house & hearth grate and what belongs to them, the clock in the house and dresser and shelves, the stillards and the largest cleaver, the second best chest and large silver spoon, seven pewter dishes and a dozen plates, the book called "The Duty of Man", the old printed Bible, a bundle of linen left by his grandmother marked Thomas Talbot, a gun, a pair of the second best brass candlesticks, the largest pair of smoking irons.
Also I will that if my grandchild Thomas should dye without heirs his portion go to his nearest relations Hardin Talbot and William Talbot.
ITEM. I give to my grandchild William Talbot the interest of £340 for his life. The first interest to be paid to my aforesaid grandchild William Talbot at twelve months after my decease. I also empower my trustees and executors if they see it convenient to give him the principle to put him in a way of business.
Also two pair of sheets, my watch and he may give his brother Richard Gunton his watch, also I give a pair of silver buttons and a chest, the second best table, the square table, seven ash chairs, the grate in the Palor and what belonged to it, the jack and what belongs to it, a large silver spoon, seven pewter dishes, a dozen plates, the second best Bible, my Prayer Book, the brewing copper, a bundle of linen left by his grandmother marked William Talbot, the little gun, the hanging press, a one fold up bedstead a ..?... linen furniture, window curtains the same, a feather bed pillow and bolster, two blankets and a cover, the thirty hour clock, the worst pair of brass candlesticks, the bolt iron, the worst flat irons. Should he die without heirs (etc, ... equally divided between Hardin and Thomas).

[lmgnz]

Part two:
Will of Hardin TALBOTT of Stretton on Dunsmore
At Coventry, 8 OCT 1784 (see also 16 FEB 1801)

ITEM. To my grandchild Ann GUNTON the interest of £100 to be paid for her life. Should she die leaving no children the £100 shall be returned again to my family.
Also two pair of sheets, all my wife's weaving apparel both linens and woollens of all sorts, one gold ring, her grandmother's snuff box and gold and silver bodkins, a chester drawer, the best chest, a long box, seven black chairs, the looking glass and sconces in the Palor, the tea table as goes with a spring, the card table, the tea chest and what belongs to it, the tea tongs and six silver teaspoons marked with [E.C], a tea kettle and all the Cheney, the buckles and buttons I wear, a pewter basin, a poset pot and stand marked with [E.J] a tobacco plate marked with [E.C], the mortar and pestle, the little cleaver and carving dish, the little fender, the little fire shovel and tongs and the little irons as belong to them. The clothe horse and night stool and the bed pan, a pair of flat irons, a lock iron and heaters, my Great Bible with the Apocrypha in it, the cupboard in the House, the warming pan, the best pair of brass candlesticks, a hanging candlestick, the tinder box, the ladle and pepper box, all brass, a barrel and pot and a frying pan.
To my gt-grandchild Elizabeth Gunton, interest of £20 yearly until she is twenty one, then to receive the principle. (If Elizabeth dies her portion to go to her sister Susanna). Also to Elizabeth one gold ring.
To my gt-grandchild Susannah interest of £20 etc.. (If both die without heirs, to go to their mother Ann and if all die, to go to their nearest Talbot relations). Also to Susanna, one gold ring.
To my maidservant Sibel Veasey £10. Also a flock bed and bedstead with bed furniture, three blankets, pillows and what belongs to it. Also mourning and every thing decent to wear with it.
To my son Hardin Talbot the interest of £340 (if he dies to go to his sons Thomas & William). Also a silver pint for his life (then to go to Thomas and if Thomas dies without heirs, to go to William)
To Thomas my second best clothes and to William the next best cloaths. My shirts to be parted between Hardin William and Thomas only two shirts I give to my grandson Richard Gunton.
A suit of mourning to Hardin, William, Thomas, Ann and Richard Gunton.
I also appoint William SMITH of the parish of Dunchurch, Warwickshire and Richard Matthias , Mason of Stretton on Dunsmore as trustees.
Signed 24 APR 1784.
Witnesses: James YOUNG, Samuel YOUNG,    Thomas JENKINS

[NickyC07]

I am researching the Talbot/Talbutt family of Lillington, Warwickshire and wondered whether my ancestor John could be the son of Thomas and Mary baptised in 1737.

John first appears in the Lillington records when his daughter Phebe was baptised in 1762.  I have yet to find his marriage to his wife Dinah.

Any assistance would be appreciated.

Nicky

[lmgnz]

Hi Nicky,

I am sorry but I have absolutely no knowledge of John Talbott, son of Thomas and Mary, other than his baptism on 14 Aug 1737. Yes he could be your John but then he could also have died as an infant. 

I have only been able to link the various Talbott families if they named a son Hardin, and that seems to only occur in the descendants of Thomas's presumed brother Richard who married Emlin Boovey, who Pat Orme has traced to an Elinor Bovey born Alcestor.

Cheers

Linda

[lmgnz]

I now have DNA information relating to the Ryton on Dunsmore  Talbot families so am reopening the previous discussions. But I will try to keep to one family at a time.

I have several linked DNA matches to the family of Thomas Talbot and Mary Saunders who married 11 Jul 1774.

Thomas apparently was born Kineton c 1750 (though I am not sure of the source for that).

I now have a family of four children born to this couple

1 Hardin  Talbot born 4 Sep 1774 at Ryton on Dunsmore who married a Mary Nash at Tring, Hertfordshire in 1798. Six Children born Tring. Second marriage to Ann Moulder in North Church, Hertford in 1821 and another 6 children born North Church or near.  Hardin was lock keeper there in 1841. Hardin though, who died 1852  is buried at Ryton on Dunsmore.

2  Richard Talbot born  c1775 at Ryton  died 1851 at Southam. No other information. However a DNA match linked to other matches is this family does have a Richard canal lock operator, deceased father of a William Talbot who married an Ann Phillips in 1873. So I would like to know more about Richard.

3 William Talbot born 1778 at Ryton . Even less information.

4 Sarah Talbot born  about 1780 at Ryton, Married John Field at Ufton in 1802 and died at Ufton in 1847. This is the family of two DNA matches and possibly 2 or 3 others but without trees.

Though I intended to add this family to one of my ancestors, I still have not yet done so but from the DNA evidence they should be linked to one of my closer Hardin Talbots.

[lmgnz]

One theory to explain the DNA matches in the family of Thomas Talbot and Mary Saunders is that the Hardin Talbot baptised 1750, brother of my 4x gt grandmother Peggie Talbot, may have been known by a second name and was in fact the Thomas Talbot born c1750 who married Mary Saunders in 1774.

This would explain the absence of records for Hardin b 1750, if you discount the burial of an infant Hardin Talbot in 1759.

Failing that, then I would expect Thomas to have been a nephew of my 5x gt grandfather Richard Talbot b 1717. In which case there appear to be only  two options for the father of Thomas. One is the Hardin Talbot baptised 1708 or his brother Thomas baptised 1724. Thomas  bapt 1724 was a twin and so more likely to have died as an infant but no definite record has been found for this Thomas after his baptism.