Talbots of Ryton on Dunsmore

[lmgnz]

I am revisiting my early Talbot research and am interested in contacting anyone else interested in this Ryton-on-Dunsmore family.

My 3x gt grandfather William Smith was born 1800 in Ryton-on-Dunsmore and I have always believed him to be the son of John Smith and Peggie Talbot but was not absolutely certain until this week. I do not seem to have recorded in my early notes that in 1841 Peggie Smith aged 80 was at the same address as William (Fir Tree Farm, Bascote, Long itchington).

I have also just found Peggie's burial in Ancestry; Peggie Smith was buried in Ryton-on-Dunsmore on 18 Dec 1847 aged 91. Not sure why I missed it before

John Smith was buried in Ryton-on-Dunsmore on 26 APR 1814 aged 66.

Peggie Talbot was baptised in ROD on 16 Feb 1759, daughter of Richard and Margaret.

The other family members that I had extracted were:

Hardin  baptised    22 DEC 1750
William   "      18 MAR 1753
Sarah    "       3 AUG 1755
John    "      10 APR 1757
Peggie   "      16 FEB 1759

Richard TALBOTT (noted as husband of Margaret) was buried on June 20th 1767. Margaret (wife of Richard) was buried on 14 SEP 1797.

I did not find a marriage for Richard and Margaret's were married c1750 then this would suggest that Richard was born around 1720.

I had a probable match for Richard in the family of Richard Talbot and Emlin  ?Boudy who were married in ROD on 20 JAN 1706.  The following list are the baptisms I extracted from the LDS copies of the ROD parish films. Most of these can now be found in Ancestry but I have not yet had time to check them all out again. I do know now that there is a second Sarah baptism on 28 Feb 1722/23. The same day as the Joseph & John baptisms that I recorded as 1723.

There are ten baptisms recorded in Ryton-on-Dunsmore to Richard and Emlin:
   Mary          bap    10 MAY 1713
   Richard        "   5 SEP 1717
   Thomas & John     "     10 JUL 1719
   Sarah           10 DEC 1720
   Joseph & John     "     28 FEB 1723
   Thomas & Ann      "    29 MAR 1724
   William                 8 JAN 1727

Many of these children did not survive childhood. But a list exists of those who were minors on the death of their father Richard in 1727.

Hardin   Mary   Elizabeth   Richard   Sarah   Thomas   William

It is the name Hardin that makes me think that the Richard in the above list is my 4 x gt grandfather. I am interested in any Talbot family which includes the name Hardin.

I have a transcript of the Will of a Hardin Talbot of Stretton-on Dunsmore who was a great grandfather at the time of his death. Hardin (d1784) only mentions one son named Hardin but leaves most of his possessions to his grandsons Thomas & William and some great grandchildren. This is a very lengthy and detailed Will which is very interesting tor read.Will of Hardin TALBOTT of Stretton on Dunsmore At Coventry, 8 OCT 1784 (see also 16 FEB 1801)

I believe Thomas and William  were the sons of Hardin Talbot who married Elizabeth OAKLEY on 1 OCT 1756 at ROD. This Hardin Talbot was presumably born c1835 and died intestate in 1800.

Children of Hardin & Elizabeth Talbot:

Thomas 1757-1816

[lmgnz]

Oops I appear to have accidentally posted the first part of this unfinished though it has more than enough to be going on with. However I do want to get to Thomas Talbot b c1757 son of Hardin as this is where my research differs from public member trees on Ancestry and in FamilySearch.

 Hardin’s son Thomas died 1817 and it is probably his will which appears on the probate index in 1818. Thomas's wife Elizabeth died in 1830 and left a will.

Elizabeth's will names Willilam Gunton/Gunter as a nephew and heir.

Will of Elizabeth TALBOTT of Ryton-upon-Dunsmore At Coventry 8 OCT 1830
I give and bequeath to my sister, Catherine CHAPLIN all my wearing apparel & my wedding ring. I give and bequeath unto my nephew William GUNTER all my money goods chattels personal estate & effects of what nature or kind so-ever and where soever the same shall be at the time of my death. And I nominate constitute and appoint my said nephew William Gunter executer.

In Hardin Talbot seniors will of 1784 he names his granddaughter who I believe to be Ann Talbot baptised 1759,  daughter of Hardin & Elizabeth & sister of Thomas b1757.

ITEM. To my grandchild Ann GUNTON the interest of £100 to be paid for her life. Should she die leaving no children the £100 shall be  returned again to my family.

To my gt-grandchild Elizabeth Gunton, interest of £20 yearly until she is twenty one, then to receive the principle. (If Elizabeth dies her portion to go to her sister Susanna). Also to Elizabeth one gold ring.

To my gt-grandchild Susannah interest of £20 etc.. (If both die without heirs, to go to their mother Ann and if all die, to go to their nearest Talbot relations). Also to Susanna, one gold ring.

To Thomas my second best clothes and to William the next best cloaths. My shirts to be parted between Hardin William and Thomas only two shirts I give to my grandson Richard Gunton.

A suit of mourning to Hardin, William, Thomas, Ann and Richard Gunton.

The above Gunton/Gunter family helped me decide to marry Thomas to Elizabeth Smith.  Elizabeth SMITH married Thomas TALBOT in Ryton-on-Dunsmore on 27th JUL 1784.

I think I remember  confirming this is the same Thomas by finding Elizabeth's sister Catherine's marriage to CHAPLIN.

So I am fairly happy to match Thomas with Elizabeth and I think my problem with the trees in Ancestry and FamilySearch is that they have a different Thomas Talbot who also died c1818 married to Mary Saunders in 1774.  This Thomas and Mary had a son Hardin b1774.

I just have to now untangle this second Thomas from the grandson of Hardin (c1710-1784) and find a place to put him. Unfortunately there is no contact information for his Ancestry members in whose trees he appears, for me to make contact with them.

So if anyone out there has Hardin Talbots or Ryton on Dunsmore Talbots, I would dearly love to contact them.

Cheers

Linda

[Pat Orme]

Hello Linda,
Probably many years after you posted your letter regarding the Talbots, I picked it up as I was also revising my FH. William, of Harding and Elizabeth (Coakley, I think) was possibly their only surviving child. I and 2 other FH-interested relatives have been looking for him for years. He appears to have 2 baptisms - possibly due to his mother dying when he was 4, sorrow of his father, a disagreement, who knows? the first was at RoD in1763, the second at Stretton in 1777 - with a note from the Churcwarden? saying he had been baptised at the age of 14 " next June 5th " - the date of his first.
           I already knew of the inscription on his tombstone in Fillongley (with his wife, the former Mary Sammons, and the dates roughly fit (give or take 1/2 years.) I have noted the details of the Wills you've quoted, and intend to look at them, and shall probably go back to Warwick CRO this afternoon - I'm only 10 minutes away.
          I'm meeting a 'cousin' next week, and have already sent her my news on William Torbut/ Talbot/ Torbett.
Pat Orme.     

[lmgnz]

Hi Pat,

I think I may have sorted out the Coakley conundrum after I posted. I now believe that Hardin Talbott b1708 died 1784, married twice. His first wife was Elizabeth Pearson, married 10 May 1734. Their son Hardin was baptised 10 Aug 1735.

I think this Elizabeth nee Pearson died in 1755 and was buried on 14th December.

Hardin (noted as Hardin senior) married again on 19 Nov 1756 to Elizabeth Coakely who was a widow from the parish of Franckton.

Hardin’s son Hardin married on 1st Oct 1756 to (another) Elizabeth Coakely who was a minor from the parish of Frankton. Her mother, Elizabeth Coakely, a widow, gave her consent

So I think father and son (both named Hardin) married mother and daughter (both named Elizabeth Coakely). This makes it a little difficult to be sure which Elizabeth wife of Hardin was the
Elizabeth wife of Hardin who was buried 14 January 1767 along with their daughter Sarah, but I did think this may be Hardin juniors wife, which as you say would make William  4 years old when she died.

The items marked " E C" in Hardin Talbott seniors will would be items left by his wife Elizabeth Coakley. In the list for Ann Gunton

"the tea tongs and six silver teaspoons marked with [E.C],"

Hardin Talbott (1735-1800)
Hardin and Elizabeth Coakely jnr had three children who survived infancy and were named in their grandfather’s Will:
   Thomas    bapt 28 Aug 1757      married 1784 Elizabeth Smith       died 1817
   Ann      bapt 25 Feb 1759      married 1781 Richard Gunton
   William   bapt 5 Jun 1763      married Elizabeth Ladbrook      died 1820

As you see from above though, I have William married to an Elizabeth Ladbrook not Mary Sammons.

So I will need to check my sources for that marriage.

I do not know the Fillongley tombstone and will have to look up where that is.

Cheers

Linda (NZ)

[lmgnz]

I have now added Thomas Talbot and Mary Saunders to my Graham Family tree in Ancestry, though I do not know for sure where to place Thomas. I am LM Graham127 and my tree is public.

For now I have accepted that he was the son of John and Sarah, bapt 9 Mar 1755 in Kineton.

The Thomas Talbot will of 1818 could perhaps belong to this Thomas or as I mentioned before, the Thomas son of Hardin (jnr) and Elizabeth Coakley (jnr) . It does not appear from my previous post that I hired that particular Will in to view at the LDS back in the 1980s when I started this research. I would need to check my notebooks to be sure and I am currently away from home.

I did obviously hire in the Will of the Elizabeth Talbott who died 8 Oct 1830 and as she named William Gunton as a nephew, I think she was the wife of Thomas Talbott brother of Ann Gunton nee Talbott. This makes her Elizabeth Smith (I think from Wolston) and her sister Catherine married James Chaplin.

Linda (NZ)

[Pat Orme]

Hi Linda, I'm still pondering your info and trying to make it fit the facts I've verified with evidence from Warwick CRO. Your info. on there being 2 Elizabeth Coakleys is proving very useful. I thought it was virtually impossible for William to be the son of Harding Talbot senior, as he would have been 56. I'm sticking with William Talbot marrying Mary Sammons as their son, John (my g.g.grandfather) was baptized in 1795 - before the marriage of Elizabeth Ladbrook in 1802. I'll next try to untangle the Thomas Talbots. My g.g.mother was Mary Jane Torbitt 1851-1936. Keep in touch - we have info.to share. Pat Orme.

[lmgnz]

Hi Pat,

I have found the marriage of William Talbott of the parish of Kenilworth to Mary Sammon at Weston under Wetherly on 13 Oct 1788.

I also found in one of my old notebooks the banns in Ryton on Dunsmore for the marriage of Richard Talbott  and Mary Sammonds on 23 Jul 1769, which may be connected.

The marriage of William Talbott to Elizabeth Ladbrook took place in Ryton on Dunsmore on 7 Jun 1803. William Talbott who was buried on 11 Apr 1820 at Ryton on Dunsmore was aged 55,so I thought he was William son of Hardin and possibly husband of Elizabeth. It would help to see the actual tomsbtones or transcription or know where they are placed, but I am a little bit far away to do that.

One thing is sure, the two Williams, one at Fillongley and one at Ryton on Dunsmore, cannot be the same person.

Cheers

Linda (NZ).

[lmgnz]

Just to clarify, the two William Talbott burials cannot be the same person.

I do not know if William Talbott son of Hardin could have moved to Kenilworth prior to 1788. Or how long he would have needed to live there before he would be noted as from the Parish of Kenilworth.  I have not looked at Talbott families in Kenilworth.

Cheers

Linda

[lmgnz]

Update.

After finding the Warwickshire Church records online, I was able to expand the list of the children Richard and Emlin Talbot. I found the 1708  baptism for the oldest son Hardin, and FamilySearch record the son I couldn't read in 1710 as another Richard. Only Elizabeth (noted as a minor at the time of her fathers death) remains in hiding. I think there was a baptism elsewhere that I thought might be her.

   Hardin         bap   17 May 1708
   Son Richard             22 Aug 1710  (shown as Richard in FamilySearch)
   Children Jospeh & Mary       19 March 1711
   Mary                10 MAY 1713
   Elizabeth
   Richard           "   5 SEP 1717
   Thomas            10 JUL 1719   was buried on September 19th 1719
   John            "     10 JUL 1719   was buried 5 November 1719
   Sarah           "     10 DEC 1720
   Joseph            28 FEB 1723   was buried 12 MAR 1723
   John             "   28 FEB 1723   was buried 10 MAR 1723
   Thomas         “   29 MAR 1724   
   Ann                "   29 MAR 1724      died before 1727
   William                 "     8 JAN 1727       was buried in 1729.