Which LONDON PRISON for my naughty ancestor ????

[JOOBLES]

I would also love to know exactly what he would have done regarding 'hard labour' - on the treadmill perhaps ?

He was sentenced at Clerkenwell Sessions House, Middlesex in October 1875 so I wonder if he would have been held in the Clerkenwell prison for a while before being sent to wherever he served his time. If they got 18 months would they have actually served the full time ? If so, then he must have died in prison if the death entry is correct - I'll let you know !

So, I've ordered the 1876 death certificate which will be here in a few days so that will establish if he died in prison - so many questions !!

Julie

[JOOBLES]

Aha - had some of the questions answered -

Henry died after serving only 4 months of his sentence in the Middlesex House of Correction.

Died on Feb. 24th 1876.  Cause of death - bronchitis 'etat' ? (not sure what etat means, could be Not, Nat ??)

Inquest held 26.2.1876 ..... so where can I find the inquest records please ??

Would he have been buried in the prison cemetery or would his body have been released to his widow to arrange a funeral ?

Julie

[Rena]

Oh dear ........ I've just found a London newspaper report relating to one of 'my lot' who was sentenced to 18 months 'hard labour' in October 1875. He was a watchmaker / repairer who kept some of his customers' gold watches, pawned them and kept the money for himself !

Henry Scott, aged 37 was living in Hammersmith at the time so I'm wondering where he would have been imprisoned.  The report said, "He made no defence and held a handkerchief to his eyes."

Pity the sentencing isn't as harsh for today's criminals.
Hope some kind soul can assist me please.
Julie

My great grandfather went into bankruptcy about the same time and I feel sorry for your relative, who (it seems to me) didn't sell his customers property which they'd asked him to repair, but pawned the watch(es) when business tailed off, hoping he could sell some of his own stock, and with the sales money he could redeem his client's property and return it in a repaired condition.

I feel this (below) could be relevant to your ancestors position:-

One of the reasons my ancestor gave for the downturn in his fortunes was the American Civil War (1861-1865), which affected the fortunes of everyone in the UK at the time because the North barricaded the Southern states, with the result that our ships couldn't gain access to that market.  When the market was eventually opened business didn't resume at the same high level. 

After bankruptcy, my ancestor sent one of his sons to South Africa to try to drum up trade - unfortunately, there was no upturn in trade as his son died far away from home in 1879.

[JOOBLES]

That's interesting Rena, I never thought of it like that.

Julie

[Rena]

That's interesting Rena, I never thought of it like that.

Julie

At that time the majority didn't have a time piece -they relied on the church clock, or the factory hooter, or the dawn chorus, etc.   He would have supplied the rich and the owners of factories and shops, etc.  and we all know this last decade from the number of closed factories and shops in the high street that when money stops flowing it doesn't gush back into the country but just trickles in.

I bet your ancestor was really afraid for his family.  He wasn't from the unskilled labour "class".  His father had obviously paid for his apprenticeship but if he couldn't pay for schooling and apprenticeships for his offspring what was to become of them and his wife?   Since I read your posting I have wondered if his wife managed to survive or did she have to apply to the church poorbox or to the workhouse for shelter.

[JOOBLES]

Hi Rena,

His wife went on to have a good financial future !  She remarried but was widowed again then married a third time to a man 30 years her junior !!!  Her parents were wealthy and left her a property in 1876 so she later died in 1924 a wealthy old lady so it was a happy ending for her.

Julie

[dawnsh]

Died on Feb. 24th 1876.  Cause of death - bronchitis 'etat' ? (not sure what etat means, could be Not, Nat ??)

Inquest held 26.2.1876 ..... so where can I find the inquest records please ??

Julie

Hi Julie

Don't hold out too much hope for coroners records... You might be lucky though. The LMA has a leaflet here

http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/things-to-do/visiting-the-city/archives-and-city-history/london-metropolitan-archives/Documents/visitor-information/41-coroners-records-for-london-and-middlesex.pdf

Dawn

[JOOBLES]

Thanks Dawn -  now I just need to find someone who can visit - I'm a very long way from them unfortunately