Thomas James Puzzle

[Goldberry]

My 'cousins' and I have been researching the ancestry of our shared 3xg grandfather Thomas James. Between us this has been researched over many years.  Now we have come together to finally try and knock down the brick wall.  Several times we've thought we had located him, but each time it has turned out not to be him after all.

What we do know for sure about our Thomas is that he drowned at the age of 36 in 1835 in a boating accident when pilchard fishing in Newquay.

We also know that he married Catherine Hocking on 28 Dec 1822 in St Columb Minor, at which time he was shown to be living in Cubert, and we know from the information on his childrens' baptism records that he was a miner.

Thomas and Catherine had 6 children all baptised in St Columb Minor:

Mary A James     1823-1915 (m James Moyses)
John James        1825-1915 (m Elizabeth Nicholls)
Catherine Ann    1827-1899 (m Thomas Gerry)
Margaret           1829-1911 (m William Alfred)
Samuel             1831-1832
Sarah Jane        1833-1875 (m Charles Pearce)

Having pretty much researched any Thomas James born in Cornwall between 1789-1801, it seems that we might finally have found Thomas's family, but they are a bit of an enigma!  Many of the siblings appear to have died very young, but there some that we are unable to find any information for other than their baptisms.  We feel that unless we can find a solution to these missing siblings that we are unable to prove that we have finally found the right family.

Parents:

William James    1744 Probus - 1845 Crowan    (married 16 Oct 1797 Stithians)
Mary Tiller            1776 St Enoder - 1814 St Enoder (registered in Ladock)

They had the following children:

Thomas            1799 Probus - (possibly 1835 St Columb Minor)
Samuel Tiller    1801 Ladock - ? *
William            1802 - 1805 Ladock
Dorcas       1805 Ladock - (between 1881-1891) (m Thomas Prisk)
William            1808 Ladock - ? **
John               1811 - 1811 Ladock
Marianne           1812 Ladock - ? ***
Elizabeth            1814-1814 Ladock

William James 1774 (widower/Yeoman) then married a widow, Elizabeth Rosewell (nee Johns), on 7 Mar 1815 St Enoder

They had two children:

Christian James    1818 Ladock - 1861 Crowan (m John Hart in 1837)
                        (Father William shown living with her in Crowan in 1841)
Maria James    1821-1823 Ladock

In addition, Elizabeth had 4 children from her previous marriage:

Elizabeth    1801 Gwinear - ?
Prudence    1806 Ludgvan
                (m George Bennet 9 Dec 1830 in Cubert, where Prudence was shown to be living)
John       1809 Ludgvan - ?
Andrew    1813 St Stephens in Brannel - 1834 Camborne

All of the above information has been found in records from either COPC or FSO. 

This family appear to have connections all over Cornwall which makes the research difficult.

* We recently thought we had found Samuel Tiller James (1802) on a convict ship which was sent to Australia in 1819, but following a query on this forum, somebody kindly informed me that he was shown as age 27 when on the holding hulk Leviathan.  So, unless he was lying about his age, this does not appear to be him.  (COPC showing as his name as James Tiller, FSO as Samuel Tiller.  Having viewed original parish register on FSO it does appear to be Samuel).

**We have been unable to find anything about William (1808).

***All of the baptisms and burials during this period in Ladock appear to be related to this family.  So it’s strange that there is a baptism of Marianne (Mary Ann?) in Oct 1812 and a burial of a Mary in Sept 1812.  I wondered whether it was possible that the two events had been muddled in the register.

If any users of this forum can shed any light on this family, we would be very grateful.

Thank you.

[JaneyCanuck]

After much pondering (and you can see how many people have read and pondered!), only one possibly slightly useful comment to make:

"So it’s strange that there is a baptism of Marianne (Mary Ann?) in Oct 1812 and a burial of a Mary in Sept 1812."

More likely than not (but not without exception), if the death was of a child, an age (or "infant" or possibly the parents' names) would have been entered. None is shown for that Mary James.

There were James-s in Ladock not necessarily connected with yours, e.g. deaths in 1796 and 1796, Margaret and William, respectively, both identified as "pauper". (There is a William James + Margaret Trelease marriage in Ladock in 1737 with three matching births 1745-1756 (first one died) -- all daughters, though, but one was a Mary 1752 and she didn't marry in Ladock at least.)

The Mary who died in 1812 could have been an adult, possibly a James by marriage.

In any case, I think the odds of a muddle in the parish records between the baptism and the burial are slim.

[Goldberry]

Thanks for your thoughts on the burials, Janey.  I've just had another look on COPC.

http://cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/burials/index.php?year_from=1799&year_to=1814&parish=Ladock&forename1=forename&surname1=james&t=burials&bf=Search

The burial of William in 1805 says infant, the burial of Elizabeth in 1814 says 3m, and we know the other burial of Mary in 1814 was their mother. 

The reason for the query about Marianne, is that we haven't been able to find anything else about her either - so the query about the Mary burial was just a "long shot".

I must admit that I've usually found that same with burials, that if it's a child it generally gives some indication.  So, I wonder if the burial of a John in 1811 was just a coincidence too?  In which case, that's another sibling that we haven't been able to trace any further.

[Goldberry]

Update:

We're pretty confident that we've found the marriage of Marianne James (Mary Ann?) in 1837 Mawgan in Pydar to William Rawlings.  http://cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=893250  It shows father as William, husbandman, which is correct, and their children's names appear to match naming patterns.

Also, there's a burial of a William James in St Austell on 7 Nov 1827 age 20 that could possibly be William bap 10 Jul 1808  http://cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=burials&id=1619684  I haven't been able to find any other William of similar age yet, so it might be him.

Still absolutely nothing on Samuel Tiller James.  I have a spreadsheet full of Samuel James born around the same period and have found something for all of them, eg marriage, census or burial - even convict ship) but I can't find anything at all for Samuel Tiller James, other than his baptism.