Information appreciated for Fox/Shelly & Shelly/Whitty families

[allesond]

Hi Tara, thanks again for your help.

Our family knew Maggie as Irish. On her Ocean Voyage she listed her birthplace the same as her daughter Barbara Stewart, Liverpool, who she travelled with.  Her Debrett’s listing is from Dublin, but could be construed as Nicholas was from Dublin.  My mother’s birth cert definitely states her mother was b. in Dublin, Ireland.

Maggie’s death cert is attached if you can see. The middle name of Thelisa is an anomaly and is in different typeface. I called medical records and they had no explanation.

I believe firmly that Margaret and Catherine Fox are sisters as per the same address 57/59 Mabbot St, their father’s name is Michael as per baptism at St. Mary’s Pro, but Catherine was b. in Nicholas’ in-laws house.

I believe Alice Fox was Margaret Shelly’s daughter as she was b. in the same house as her mother died a month after her birth, 12 Grand Canal, but she was baptised in St Mary Haddington not St. Mary’s Pro.

Catherine and Margaret Shelly (Fox) are buried in the same family gravesite.
I get that that Margaret and Alice might not have known their parents names, but not that the church would get it wrong twice. I concede that Margaret might have been told her father was a Master Mariner if he was no longer in the picture. Alice was 6 and living at her Aunt Mary Shelly’s (Smith) house in 1901. I have candidates for Margaret or Maggie in 1901 but nothing concrete or with relatives and the age is wrong.

I wish that the Dublin Civil Registration had any of the 3 girls’ birth certificates, but I was an hour on the phone with them with no luck.

I so appreciate that you took the time to follow up on my posting, means a lot to get another perspective.

Best Regards,
Alleson

PS I tried to attach the death cert but was too large.

[hasta]

Have you or whoever you spoke to on the phone at the GRO looked into this registration

Name:    Margaret Mary Fox
Registration District:    Dublin North
Birth Country:    Ireland
Volume:    2
Page:    456

Obviously something wrong as no year is included. Dublin North is good for Mabbott Street.

[allesond]

I will call as soon as I get up tomorrow. I bet that is her. I will let you know.

Alleson

[allesond]

Thank you Tara and all those before at RootChats for all your help.

This morning I called Dublin Civil Registration Tara with this information below that Tara provided.
Name:    Margaret Mary Fox
Registration District:    Dublin North
Birth Country:    Ireland
Volume:    2
Page:    456
Unfortunately Dublin Civil Registration does not use these codes and  I wonder if it is the GRO?

However with this phone call I have found my grandmother!!!!!

From this post below of a compilation of church records and Glasnevin Cemetary, Tara gave fresh insight:

Are Margaret Mary, Catherine, and Alice (Alicia) Fox sisters?

Margaret Mary Fox b. April 19, 1890 at 59 Mabbot Street.
Mother: Margaret Shelly Father: Michael Fox

Catherine Fox b June 27, 1891 d, March 1, 1893 at 57 Mabbot Street.
Mother Margaret Shelly Father Michael Fox
Glasnevin death Testimony: Nicholas Fox. Glasnevin record lists Catherine as: Daughter of a Stevedore

Alicia Fox b. September 21, 1894 at 12 Grand Canal
Mother: Margaret Shelly Father: Nicholas Fox (baptism record)
Married Adam Alexander 1919
Father listed as Michael Fox on marriage certificate (deceased Coal Dealer Foreman)

Mother Margaret Shelly (Fox) married Nicholas Fox 1885 when her parents lived at 57 Mabbot Street
She died Oct 18, 1894 at 12 Grand Canal and is in the same family grave at Glasnevin as Catherine Fox. Glasnevin records list her as wife of Stevedore. Civil Registration Dublin lists “Husband is Foreman for Wallace Brown”
Glasnevin death testimony: Nicholas Fox

This morning Dublin Civil Registration found a birth certificate for an Unknown Fox b. April 19, 1890 at 57 (not 59 like the church record listed) Mabbot Street. Mother: Margaret Shelby [Shelly] Father: Nicholas Fox not Michael Fox like the church record listed.

They could find no record for any other unnamed babies on the birth dates and places mentioned. 
They described to me why so many babies were unnamed on birth certificates. “Babies were born in hospitals and they left straight away and many times had them baptized on the way home … they didn’t need the birth certificate.”

This is an absolute, no doubt about it record of my Grandmother and my the tree on Ancestry with all of the potential candidate of: Shelly’s, Smith/Smyth’s, Foxes, and Byrnes get to stay because they belong to my family. And Catherine and Alice Fox are Margaret (Maggie's) sisters.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU, from the bottom of my heart. I turned 65 yesterday and this is the best birthday present ever.

Alleson

[taramcdsmall]

Hiya Alleson

Well, FIRST of all HAPPY BIRTHDAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Secondly, HA I think HASTA put you on the right course NOT me.

I think if anything the only thing that I did was make you DETERMINED to prove that the three girls were sisters and that you did in spades.

Well done you on your perseverance !

Naughty Margaret made it super tricky on you - HUM maybe it was SHE who gave you a 'day late' birthday pressie from 'up above' to make up for her 'high aspirations' on her father's occupation.

Well done again - it will be SOOOO nice for you to now garner as much info as you can on this family and REALLY paint a picture of your Grandmother.

Tara

[allesond]

Thank you again, and I just have to go to Dublin one of these days and sift through the research room to find the rest of the family.

Big Hugs,
Alleson

[allesond]

strange one. on glasnevin trust genealogy . nicholas fox 1901 age 40 buried in standard grave not on death index.

Hello Dathai, More than a half a year later I can now confirm this Glasnevin listing you found for Nicholas Fox is my grandfather. Short of a DNA test, the death record of Oct 6, 1906 from Glasnevin  lists Nicholas Fox's address as: 6 Shaw Villas Great Brunswick St Dublin, Ireland.

Nicholas Fox's sister Ellen Mooney [Fox] and family lived at this address during the 1901 and 1911 censuses. Mary Fox is listed as witness for death record. Mary is a newly identified sister of Nicholas. Fox.

The Select Catholic Birth and Baptism Registers have been a great help in finding all the children of a specific couple, such as:

Mary Fox of William & Julia SS Manolla [?sic] Byrne. (Parents of Nicholas Fox are William fox and Julia Byrne)

Other entries include:
1. Mary Margret Maddingan of Michael & Teresa S Mary Scully
2. George Manning William & Anne SS John Kelly & Margaret Kelly
3. Mary Brangan of Mathew & Margaret S Mary Ferrall

Some of the names on these records have SS and some just one S. I wonder is this indicates whether the parent or parents of the brides are the mother or father or one parent or two.

Anyway Dathai thank you for the Glasnevin entry that was my grandfather.
Best regards,
Alleson

[allesond]

OK I'm an idiot; one S is one parent and two SS is two parents, I had to post to see it.

[annclare]

Alleson

The S stands for Sponsor (godparents) you will see wehre ther is one S there is just one godparent and where SS tow godparents.

Congrats on your research.
annclare