'Secrets from the Workhouse' tv programme

[sallyyorks]

According to the historian AN Wilson in his book The Victorians
"The years 1837-44 brought the worst economic depression that had ever afflicted the British people . It is  estimated - and we are speaking here of the years before the Irish famine- that more than a million paupers starved from simple lack of employment".

I wonder what happened when the workhouses were full ?

[IgorStrav]

I thought he got quite righteously annoyed about the way people had been treated, and made it clear that he was not directing his anger at the researcher.  I think she was embarrassed by the camera (as indeed I would be in similar circumstances) and not by him.

To find one of my ancestors living on a staircase  in a documented return would have left me feeling sick to my stomach as well.  Let alone people making judgements on folk in the workhouse because they felt they were undeserving poor.

His performance came across, to me anyway, as pure ham......... and I found myself more annoyed at the contempt with which he was treating precious records.

Having read a number of these Poor Law Applications reports for my own ancestors,the regime and times were brutal but at least they did something which they never did for the starving in Ireland during the worst years of the Famine.

However to quote LP Hartley " The past is a foreign country they do things differently there"

We'll have to agree to disagree about Brian Cox, I found myself much in sympathy with him.

The past is indeed a foreign country, but it doesn't prevent you from feeling angry about what went on there.  It is, indeed, how we learn what not to do again.

Will be interesting to see what other discoveries come up in the next episode

[heywood]

We'll have to agree to disagree about Brian Cox, I found myself much in sympathy with him.

The past is indeed a foreign country, but it doesn't prevent you from feeling angry about what went on there.  It is, indeed, how we learn what not to do again.

Will be interesting to see what other discoveries come up in the next episode

I thought that he was incensed at the circumstances also.
My grandfather (born 1877) was never in the workhouse, nor any of his family I think, but the fear of it was very real to him. He would talk of it often when I was a child (it was then our local hospital) but he often referred to it as 'the workhouse'.

Falkyrn,
there were workhouses in Ireland also - not sure what you mean there.

heywood

[RJ_Paton]

We'll have to agree to disagree about Brian Cox, I found myself much in sympathy with him.

The past is indeed a foreign country, but it doesn't prevent you from feeling angry about what went on there.  It is, indeed, how we learn what not to do again.

Will be interesting to see what other discoveries come up in the next episode

I thought that he was incensed at the circumstances also.
My grandfather (born 1877) was never in the workhouse, nor any of his family I think, but the fear of it was very real to him. He would talk of it often when I was a child (it was then our local hospital) but he often referred to it as 'the workhouse'.

Falkyrn,
there were workhouses in Ireland also - not sure what you mean there.

heywood

When I read some of the Poorhouse Inspectors comments about some of my own ancestors I was angry about what was said and implied in their language but Mr Cox's performance came across to me as exactly that, a performance for the benefit of the program and the cameras. He came across much better in an earlier program concerning the poor in (I think) Dundee where some of his other ancestors lived and worked in the Jute industry.

With regard to the Workhouse situation in Ireland my comment was in regards to those who couldn't get into the workhouses - In Ireland there was no legal system for Poor Relief and the workhouse system was introduced there around 1838  by a British Government who probably had the best of intentions. The Famine struck just shortly after the system was introduced and during their building programme and they were quickly overwhelmed. Some buildings intended to house a few hundred people held nearly two thousand and still there are images of hordes of people outside these places clamouring to get in. While this situation may seem strange to those of us in mainland UK brought up with the threat of the workhouse as a place you never wanted to go to the stark alternative for these people was get in or die because outside there was next to nothing - some soup kitchens were set up but many of these were later closed down by Government order.

[heywood]

Thanks, I misunderstood your point there re Ireland.

With regard to BC - I will have to watch him again. I just thought he was 'over the top' in general and therefore sincere in his reaction.

[sallyyorks]

I thought that he was incensed at the circumstances also.
My grandfather (born 1877) was never in the workhouse, nor any of his family I think, but the fear of it was very real to him. He would talk of it often when I was a child (it was then our local hospital) but he often referred to it as 'the workhouse'.

Falkyrn,
there were workhouses in Ireland also - not sure what you mean there.

heywood

When I read some of the Poorhouse Inspectors comments about some of my own ancestors I was angry about what was said and implied in their language but Mr Cox's performance came across to me as exactly that, a performance for the benefit of the program and the cameras. He came across much better in an earlier program concerning the poor in (I think) Dundee where some of his other ancestors lived and worked in the Jute industry.

With regard to the Workhouse situation in Ireland my comment was in regards to those who couldn't get into the workhouses - In Ireland there was no legal system for Poor Relief and the workhouse system was introduced there around 1838  by a British Government who probably had the best of intentions. The Famine struck just shortly after the system was introduced and during their building programme and they were quickly overwhelmed. Some buildings intended to house a few hundred people held nearly two thousand and still there are images of hordes of people outside these places clamouring to get in. While this situation may seem strange to those of us in mainland UK brought up with the threat of the workhouse as a place you never wanted to go to the stark alternative for these people was get in or die because outside there was next to nothing - some soup kitchens were set up but many of these were later closed down by Government order.

Hi Falkryn
 "years 1837-44 brought the worst economic depression that had ever afflicted the British people... a million paupers (in Britain) starved from simple lack of employment" (ref my previous post)
The situation in "mainland UK"  and its "poor relief" , late 1830s to early 1840s , dosn't seem to have been much better does it ?

[RJ_Paton]

Hi Falkryn
 "years 1837-44 brought the worst economic depression that had ever afflicted the British people... a million paupers (in Britain) starved from simple lack of employment" (ref my previous post)
The situation in "mainland UK"  and its "poor relief" , late 1830s to early 1840s , dosn't seem to have been much better does it ?

Proportionally I think the Irish had us beat - over 1 million dead and 2 million emigrated from a much smaller population.

To be fair to the Georgians and early Victorians they had a lot of problems following the end of the Napoleonic wars, bad harvests, boom & bust economy  etc  their society, if not breaking apart was at least straining at the seams with the gap between rich and poor growing at an exponential rate.

However once they finally saw there was a problem they sought a solution. Unfortunately the idealogy that prevailed when it came down to providing relief was less than humane, to modern eyes, but was based in part on the harsher Scottish system of relief - a belief that if you were able bodied you could find work even if there were no jobs about. The workhouse was meant as a deterrant and the treated meted out to anyone unfortunate enough to get in was in part to make sure they didn't come back. One anomaly where care in the Workhouse was actually better than outside was in the supply of health care - inside you got it outside you didn't.

[Meezer]

All these programmes bring up some startling revelations - wouldn't make interesting TV if everyone had had perfect lives! - and many of the "celebrities" they feature have a shocked reaction (remember Jeremy Paxman in tears?!) but they handled it a lot better. I don't think anyone doubts that Brian Cox was upset by what he was hearing (and with good reason) but his reaction has, I think, been summed up perfectly by a previous poster as pure ham!

[sallyyorks]

Missed first episode , but managed to catch tonights . I liked Brian Cox , he talked straight and he was right in a lot of what he said (WW1 ? too).
 We (rootschatters) are used to seeing poverty in the British records , child labour , ag labs , coal mines , mills , slums ("court" , "at back" "under dwelling" "in open" and the like) , Parish records with page after page of sudden early deaths due to disease or malnutrition . When i first saw the workhouse lists i remember being a little tearful too but , like most of us i guess, i became hardened to it . We have had time to get used to it . It can't be easy being confronted with it all in one fell swoop . Also i thought Barbera T Bradford was lovely . That letter must have been heartbreaking for her  , "longing for my own people " . Anyone working class and from Yorkshire will understand that saying and how poignant it is