1831/1841/1851 HARGRAVE

[KaylaHargrave]

Hi there,
I have been desperately trying to locate either elusive John Francis Henry Hargrave or his parents James Hargrave and Matilda/Mary Dixon/Dickson for a while now.

I am having so much trouble as John seemed to have no clear indication of his age. He may have been born anywhere between 1830 and 1846.

John left England somewhere between 1850 and 1860 for Australia where he married (twice) and died. On his first marriage cert in Australia he stated that he was a widower. Since I have found no evidence of a third marriage in Australia I believe he was married in England first.

Other common variations of spelling include Hargraves/Hargreave/Hargreaves.

Its not much to go on but any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers, Kayla 

[KGarrad]

Welcome to RootsChat!

The 1831 census you can ignore! It basically showed the total males and females at an address - nothing more.

When did John marry in Australia, and what age did he say he was?
Did he arrive as a convict?

If he was born towards the end of the range you gave, he would have travelled at an age of 14 to 20?
So unlikely to have been married in England?

If he was born towards the beginning of your range, then he travelled at an age of 20 to 30?

There is this possibility, from Criminal Registers:
Lancashire County Sessions, 4th April 1848
John Hargreaves, age 15, transported for 7 years, Larceny before convicted of Felony


There are a number of private trees on Ancestry for John Francis Henry Hargreaves.
You would need to ask the owners for any information.

[KaylaHargrave]

Thank you

When John married in 1869 he said he was 38.
And his headstone reads "departed this life Jan 25 1915 -Age 85 yrs"
Based on this and other info I have, I believe he was born in 1831, however others out there have very rudely suggested that I am incorrect   

I came to the same conclusion you did, that he must have been a convict. I was never able to find anything to prove it.

The transportation record you found would line up perfectly if he was born in 1830/31. 
Thank you for your help with John! I'll have to back track and try again on the convict register

[KGarrad]

The problem is that the name "John Hargrave" isn't exactly uncommon!

Another possibility:
Lancashire County Assizes, Liverpool,22nd March 1845

John Hargreaves, age 19, Having in Possession the Implements for Coining, 10 years transportation

But he may be too old?

[KaylaHargrave]

I know! I'm so  sorry to be a hassel. His father and mother both have the most generic names also. James and Mary... Matilda on the other hand I assume was not so common back then?? Or was it?

I agree. I think that John Hargrave may but too old to be the one I'm looking for.

This particular ancestor of mine has been such a headache to track down. Whats frustrating me the most is I'm trying to track my surname!!!

Can I ask, After being sentenced to transportation was there a delay in the sentence being carried out? For example if someone was convicted in 1848 could they have been transported in 1852?

[KGarrad]

Just to show the difficulty here, I found on the 1841 census:

68 John Hargreaves
4   John Hargreave
13 John Hargrave
10 John Hargraves

Also Hardgreaves, Hargreavs, Hargreves and Hergraves!

[KaylaHargrave]

Oh gosh.

I have no hope of finding the right one, ever.

If it helps I think I found a DOB for him 14/05/1831.

I think.

[KGarrad]

There are trees on Ancestry (but little sources of evidence!) that have JFH born 1830/1 in Suffolk?

Parents James Hargrave and Matilda Mary Dixon.

If it helps, try these 2 sources:
NSW BDM Ref. V18461644 44A/1846
NSW BDM Ref. 3909/1915

Not being Australian, I have no idea what these are!!

[KaylaHargrave]

The first one is a birth cert for a john hargrave.
The second one is my john's death cert.
My John was born in Eng... at least thats what he said on his marriage cert. Maybe he lied. Don't know why he would though.
Those trees sound about right 1830/31... I'm sorry I have no idea where suffolk is  Is the near manchester?

Matilda Mary Dixon- That would explain the name confusion. They must have written her middle name on the death certificate.