William Coyle or Koyle

[lakay]

I'd like your opinions. On the birth register records shown here for the from Merlin for the female Coyle child, it looks like the mothers maiden name is Bayl. So thinking that William Kayle was a convict, and a soldier, I looked on Founders and Survivors for Ellen Bayl and found, Ellen Bayle or Boyle, police number 428, transported for 7 years to Tasmania in 1839 on the Hindostan. I found her also at Cascades Female factory in Hobart and being employed by JB Thomas at Millford.
On the Founders and Survivors site pages it says she was married, husband William a soldier in the {L###} {Burg} Can you tell what that really means....
Because I'm wondering if that means she was married before she left England or was this her marriage to William Kayle,(convict & soldier) in Tasmania and they had the one child?
I've tried to read the images it shows on the Founders and Survivors but can't make it all out but I can see that it says she was married to William, a soldier, and had one child, but are those hand written records from before she left England or when she arrived in Australia.
It seems very much of a coincidence if this isn't the same Ellen Bayl that appears to be the mother of the Coyle child to have been married to William, who was a soldier, and to have had one child.
Also William Kayle appears to have died at Campbelltown and Ellen was employed by JB Thomas at Millford which I think is quite near to there.
Can anyone give me any clues on this, i'm a little confused.

[Dundee]

Your Ellen was born c1834-1838 (if the SWEENEY marriage and CAFFELL death are correct), so she wouldn't be the one who was transported in 1839.  A bit too much of an age difference I think.  It could however be her child maybe?

The personal information on her conduct record and indent are from her life before transportation.

Ellen BAYLE/BOYLE was a native of Horsley in Derbyshire, aged 28, wife of William, a soldier in the Queen's Bays - explanation here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_Dragoon_Guards_%28Queen%27s_Bays%29

Her indent is easier to read and has more info.  I think that by the names of her father and siblings her maiden surname may have been FOULKE/S.

http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON15-1-9,46,35,L,80
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON15-1-9,46,36,L,80

She married William MASON in 1844, applied in 1841 http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=5

There are death notices which suit them age wise, no children mentioned.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/8851284
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/8807562

Debra 

[lakay]

Hi Thanks for your reply and the information. Sorry I missed seeing the Ellen Bayle marriage, I thought I'd checked everywhere, and I can see now that she has married William Mason.
I have also noticed on the Tasmania's Heritage page that there's a William Coyle married to an Ellen Bays and a female child born in 1855, - and I'm sure that i searched all through those pages once or more before, - and whether that information is right or not, I don't know, but because of the lack of any further records to check I'm going to assume the child is the Mary Ann Coyle, that is the ancestral line I need.  Thanks for your help.

[Dundee]

A William SWEENEY aged 27 married in 1895 at Hobart to Christina COPE.  Ellen HOWARD was a witness.  His age is about right to be the son of John and Ellen SWEENEY.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-35349-23981-50?cc=2125029&wc=M93C-9DC:n1507021648

I believe I have found some relatives for Ellen Snr.

This is all speculative and I think worth looking into further.

Bridget BEHAN married in 1857 at Westbury to Jeremiah McCAULIFFE, John and Ellen SWEENEY were witnesses.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-35346-12116-56?cc=2125029&wc=M93C-9ZD:n33474734

I think Bridget arrived into Hobart as Biddy BEHANE in 1855 on the Fortitude.  She was aged 18, a general servant, RC, native to County Kerry, and sent out on the application of Denis SWEENEY.  Brothers Denis and John SWEENY of County Kerry were transported together in 1852 on the Lord Dalhousie  for stealing a cow, and were both conditionally pardoned in 1854.

Bridget died in 1900, and Jeremiah died in 1907.  He wrote his Will in 1898 and names two living sons and seven living daughters.  They only registered one of their children, William, but he was not mentioned in the will so may have died as an infant.
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=9

Johanna BEHAN married in 1862 at Westbury to Patrick DALEY.  John and Ellen SWEENEY were witnesses.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-35346-11461-71?cc=2125029&wc=M93C-9ZV:n1854196113

I think Johanna arrived into Tas. in 1860 on the Empire of Peace.  She was aged 16, a general servant, RC, native to County Kerry, and sent out on the application of J. McNAMARA.

Johanna died in 1910 and left a Will which only names two sons and a daughter.  She had quite a lot of children but I haven't checked to see if they had died.  Page 2 is missing and I will see if I can find it later, it may be on the beginning of the next Will.

I cannot find an immigration record for Ellen.

Debra 

[Dundee]

I have also noticed on the Tasmania's Heritage page that there's a William Coyle married to an Ellen Bays and a female child born in 1855, - and I'm sure that i searched all through those pages once or more before, - and whether that information is right or not, I don't know, but because of the lack of any further records to check I'm going to assume the child is the Mary Ann Coyle, that is the ancestral line I need.  Thanks for your help.

The "marriage" year noted on FamilyLinks has been assumed from the year of birth of the first known child.  Note the symbol @

@ indicates that the date given for a marriage is derived from the date of the first identified birth of a child to the two people and therefore may not be accurate. In such cases the place is derived in the same way and may not be accurate.

I agree that the surname for Ellen on the 1855 birth registration looks more like BAYL than BAYS.  However it also looks like the deputy registrar started to write the word and didn't finish it.  It seems to me that a literate person would not spell the name that way, and would put an 'E' on the end - BAYLE.  I wonder if it has been transcribed and he couldn't decipher the original handwriting.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0udm/

While there are some Catholic baptisms amongst the images available on FamilySearch it certainly isn't all of them.  Here is a list of Church Registers held by Tas. Archives  http://www.linc.tas.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/333253/Church_Register_List.pdf  and you would probably be looking at Westbury or Deloraine. 

The child would have been named when baptised and you may also get names of sponsors.  You may be able to organise someone from the genealogy society in Hobart to have a look at the records for you.

Debra 

[Dundee]

Page 2 of Johanna DALEY'S Will is at the beginning of the first page of this one:

Falkiner, Humphrey Richard
1910   AD960/1/31
484   8187

http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=9

Debra 

[lakay]

Hi Debra Thanks so much for the latest information and websites that I've checked out and found some interesting information which has helped me a lot.

I agree with you in wondering if the birth record for the unnamed Coyle child (mother Ellen Bays) that the page might have been transcribed and the writing unable to be read, because this Ellen (Bays) has then become Ellen Behan who has then married John Sweeney.

Which leads me to ask you if it's possible for you to look for a death record for Ellen Sweeney in Hobart. I found a death and funeral notice in The Mercury newspaper on trove on 26 Feb 1917, age 83 years which fits with the age of 22 she gave when she married Sweeney in 1856. And after seeing that Bridget and Joanna Behan & families lived around Hobart I'm wondering whether this is the right Ellen Sweeney.
Thank you

[Dundee]

The Ellen SWEENEY who died in 1917 was Ellen SAUNDERS who had been married to Thomas WOODS, and had a relationship in later life with a James SWEENEY.  Her son, William Benjamin WOODS enlisted in WW1 and named her as his next of kin.  Letters in his service record indicate that she died in the Consumptive Sanitorium in Hobart.

That is the only death for an Ellen SWEENEY that I can see.

Debra 

[lakay]

Hi, OK thanks for that, I just needed to get a bit more information on that to convince me that it wasn't the one I was looking for, as I wasn't too sure that the death of Ellen Caffell that has been mentioned in the earlier replies was the one I wanted - but it seems as though the Hobart one isn't the one i'm after, so I can cross that one off.