Author Topic: Tammy married her daughter off - ELLINgTON Family  (Read 64387 times)

Offline John1935

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Re: Tammy married her daughter off - ELLINgTON Family
« Reply #225 on: Tuesday 29 July 14 14:17 BST (UK) »
Hello Westoe

Thanks again for all the info, my one problem on Ronald - is to know exactly where and how he died.
Do I try and look in British or Canadian Army Archives ? as trying to follow through, it appears he was in the 52 nd Batt and then the 95th and they say the 'Manitoba Regiment", but can't find anything on googling for that.
If you could check in Ancestors for his details, when you have the time - raining here so no gardening -shame!

Best

John
Goodsir.  Ellington. Tillman.  Wilson. AngAs. Capstaff (Northumberland & Durham)
Macaire. Eusebe. Boitel. Beaulieu. Gordon. Tillman. Fear. Wood.
 ( London/ Middlesex & Devon )

Offline Westoe

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Re: Tammy married her daughter off - ELLINgTON Family
« Reply #226 on: Thursday 31 July 14 01:22 BST (UK) »
...my one problem on Ronald - is to know exactly where and how he died.

Hello John,

Erm ... the only way you are ever going to know that now is if someone else in that unit has had memoirs published.

Here's the best that I can do.

The four pages of downloads here will give you info on Ronald plus the names of the other three  from that unit who were killed that day:
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/489961/JILLINGS,%20RONALD

but I have looked at the official war diary and, of what I read, only officers are named. For Other Ranks (O.R.), only the numbers are given. I did copy all the month of August 1916, but not sure if there is any need to send them. Have you already seen the battalion war diary? Please advise.

Ooops!! , I've just looked at another page for April 1916 in Google Images for the 52nd and several privates are named then, so possibly worth your while to read it all for the duration of Ronald's service. This is the link to that page and the CEF Study Forum where it was displayed.
http://www.cefresearch.ca/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10352

Here is the link to what is available at LAC (Library and Archives Canada).
http://data4.collectionscanada.ca/netacgi/nph-brs?s1=52nd+Battalion&s13=&s12=&l=20&s9=RG9&s7=9-52&Sect1=IMAGE&Sect2=THESOFF&Sect4=AND&Sect5=WARDPEN&Sect6=HITOFF&d=FIND&p=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.collectionscanada.gc.ca%2Farchivianet%2F02015202_e.html&r=0&f=S

You will also get some idea of what Zillebeke trenches were like in 1916 from this online regimental history book:
Full text of "The 4th Canadian Mounted Rifles, 1914-1919"
https://archive.org/stream/.../mountedrifles00bennuoft.txt
Here the guides of the 52nd Battalion appeared and led each com- pany into ... in :1Iaple Copse and Railway Dug-Outs at Zillebeke-Bund and the 2nd C. 1\1.


and a bit of 52nd Battn history here:
http://52ndbattalion.com/52nd.php?pg=70

Some mentions of 52nd Battalion in June 1916 here:
http://www.lermuseum.org/en/regimental-history/billys-own/23/a-battle-report-of-sanctuary-wood-june-1916/

Ronald Jillings' service medal was auctioned as part of a group in July 2010.
http://www.dnw.co.uk/auction-archive/catalogue-archive/lot.php?auction_id=186&lot_id=72703

The War Graves Commission of course couldn't start their job until some time after the cessation of hostilities. Ronald's listed next-of-kin, his mother Dorothy, was dead by then, so the correspondence was with his sister Doris and her then address in Ealing is given both in those four pages above and in the army casualty report. Do you already have the casualty report?

The Gayfords emigrated to Canada in 1910. I'm thinking that Ronald joined the Governor-General's Body Guards because his cousin Gordon Thomas Gayford was already a member (got that bit from GTG's attestation papers) so that makes the postcard picture c. 1912 even more relevant. Do you already have those attestation papers or shall I send them? I got them for all three of your Canadian soldiers.

Cheers,
Westoe

Offline John1935

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Re: Tammy married her daughter off - ELLINgTON Family
« Reply #227 on: Thursday 31 July 14 07:22 BST (UK) »
Hello Westoe

Yes please would like attestation papers if poss, and thanks for all the other links, am sure I will get as near a result as possible, when I have read through that lot, and yes I came to the same conclusion as you with ref cousins influence, maybe also he was a lad who craved adventure, as he can only have been in Canada a few months before he joined the 'Governor General's Bodyguard'.
Gardening this morning, before it gets too hot,- raspberry patch after many years needs good clear out;
Back on this afternoon, ( if wife hasn't pinched computer first!!)- or maybe - should I buy her a 'little green beastie' ?????????

Best

John
Goodsir.  Ellington. Tillman.  Wilson. AngAs. Capstaff (Northumberland & Durham)
Macaire. Eusebe. Boitel. Beaulieu. Gordon. Tillman. Fear. Wood.
 ( London/ Middlesex & Devon )

Offline John1935

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Re: Tammy married her daughter off - ELLINgTON Family
« Reply #228 on: Thursday 31 July 14 14:22 BST (UK) »
Hello Westoe
Couldn't get this one to come through,kept throwing up error !

Full text of "The 4th Canadian Mounted Rifles, 1914-1919"
https://archive.org/stream/.../mountedrifles00bennuoft.txt
Here the guides of the 52nd Battalion appeared and led each com- pany into ... in :1Iaple Copse and Railway Dug-Outs at Zillebeke-Bund and the 2nd C. 1\1.


Another question - do I take it that before the war the 'Governor General's Bodyguard' were a reservist force, and therefore duties would be weekends and some weeks during holidays - or were they Full time paid soldiers ?
Don't quite understand why Ronald's Medal was auctioned off, or was it never actually sent to Doris, do you think.

Best

John
Goodsir.  Ellington. Tillman.  Wilson. AngAs. Capstaff (Northumberland & Durham)
Macaire. Eusebe. Boitel. Beaulieu. Gordon. Tillman. Fear. Wood.
 ( London/ Middlesex & Devon )


Offline Westoe

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Re: Tammy married her daughter off - ELLINgTON Family
« Reply #229 on: Thursday 31 July 14 15:22 BST (UK) »
Hello John,

Erm ... perhaps copyright problem? - OK for me here in Canada to read, but not you in France?

I got there by Googling this search term (minus the square brackets, but otherwise exactly as I type it here):
["52nd Battalion" "Railway Dug-Outs"]

Naturally Google asked if I didn't mean Dug-Outs without the hyphen, but no, I didn't,  because there were hits with both spellings and I searched both.

re Ronald's medal - Yes, I expect it was originally sent to Doris, but this wouldn't necessarily been the first time it was up for sale. Perhaps it was initially sold after Doris' death and four years ago that collector was dead and his estate was being sold? But being as it was only 4 years ago, there may be possibility of contacting the most recent buyer through the auction house and buying that one back again.

re GGBG's - Yes, weekends and holidays reservist force/permanent militia. Remember that this was a time when the map of most of the world was coloured red, "the empire on which the sun never sets", and "The Army" was very much a fact of life and loomed very large in the culture of the day. You'll note that your third soldier had quite a lot of pre-war experience with a C.F.A. (Canadian Field Artillery) unit which may explain his higher wartime rank.

Cheers,
Westoe

Offline John1935

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Re: Tammy married her daughter off - ELLINgTON Family
« Reply #230 on: Thursday 31 July 14 17:05 BST (UK) »
Hello Westoe

Tis me again, and yes followed, and success - interesting reading ! Think have all I can reasonably get on Ronald Jillings, but  Ronald, you are not forgotten and if I have a chance to get up to Railway Dug-outs I will.

Best

John
Goodsir.  Ellington. Tillman.  Wilson. AngAs. Capstaff (Northumberland & Durham)
Macaire. Eusebe. Boitel. Beaulieu. Gordon. Tillman. Fear. Wood.
 ( London/ Middlesex & Devon )

Offline John1935

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Re: Tammy married her daughter off - ELLINgTON Family
« Reply #231 on: Friday 01 August 14 16:12 BST (UK) »
Hello Westoe

Just before you go for a 'John' free weekend, do you think there might be any ( or thousands ) of the GAYFORD Clan still about in Toronto cause looking  G.T.G didn't die until 1989 ( which to me is yesterday )  and if there are, just maybe, could get copies of photos ?

Have a nice Weekend

Best

John
Goodsir.  Ellington. Tillman.  Wilson. AngAs. Capstaff (Northumberland & Durham)
Macaire. Eusebe. Boitel. Beaulieu. Gordon. Tillman. Fear. Wood.
 ( London/ Middlesex & Devon )

Offline Westoe

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Re: Tammy married her daughter off - ELLINgTON Family
« Reply #232 on: Friday 01 August 14 16:44 BST (UK) »
Hello John,

At some point GTG transferred to the British Army. He has a medal card at Kew, which you can download for GBP 3.30 by credit card. That has him up to officer status (2nd Loouie) so he may possibly have become the "Major Gordon Gayford" that turns up in Google making the horsey types in Stouffville distinct possibles.

Cheers,
Westoe

Offline Westoe

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Re: Tammy married her daughter off - ELLINgTON Family
« Reply #233 on: Friday 01 August 14 16:50 BST (UK) »
Yes, confirmed. Here's link to newspaper photo of Major Gordon Gayford and his horse Gamin taking a jump 1949. GTG is named a member of Governor-General's Body Guards.

Over The Top At Pennsylvania National Horse Show .
news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1955&dat=19491020&id...
Major Gordon Gayford, cf Toronto, a memb T of the Governor General's Horse Guards, and a of the Canadian Army jumping team takes his mount, Gamin, over ...

Cheers,
Westoe