Tammy married her daughter off - ELLINgTON Family

[John1935]

Hello Westoe
Reckon it is our David as age is +/- one year only, so that is what he did in his spare time then.

Best

John

[Westoe]

Sorry, John, I can't send the others. They are on the "Connected Histories" website and I don't have a subscription to "House of Commons Parliamentary Papers" database.

I'd have assumed that this David Goodsir was one of the Scottish Goodsirs, except that in the image I sent you, he was listed under Newcastle-upon-Tyne.

I've no idea whether there were licences for pilots which might give date and place of birth. I've not had occasion to research a pilot mariner yet.

Cheers,
Westoe

[John1935]

Hello Westoe
Am completely 'bog' eyed having trawled the site below for any of my M.M's but no luck, a lot on the site though also  - very small stuff, what caught my eye in whizzing thru was, in case any are yours :

'Henry Brand'        1876-8 Master William Chatwin of S.Shields.
'Louisa' 62226          1872 Master Z.Barnes  of S.Shields.
'Ridesdale' 27368      1863 Master Jn Reeder of N.Shields.
'Salisbury' 5612        1870-2 Master Chas Dawson N.Shields
'Number 1' 13760     1866 Master Samuel Stacey of N.Shields

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=043-clasa&cid=-1#-1

Best

John

[John1935]

When last at L.M.A I just happened to pick up  their leaflet No. 51  for Records of Trinity house Corporation ( mainly because I was looking for  Silas Angas and his stay in Deptford Almshouse - which I found  in  Ms302191 ).
However I am now searching more info on David Goodsir, who is down as a North Sea Pilot in 1877. Now it seems that Trinity House, examined Masters & Mates, and could grant exemption certificates and this you would find on Ms 30182 & Ms 30184 - so when I next get to LMA, can look them up, but it also appears that Trinity house did not control all ports - this includes Newcastle, where if anybody happens to be passing Tyne & Wear Archives, Blandford House, Blandford Square, in Newcastle? on their way to do Christmas shopping, and fancies a quick look to see what they have on our David I would be very grateful, as my chances of getting there are nul.

Still awaiting crew list from TNA for 'Invicta' and will post Peter Ellington's write up when I get it.

Best

John

[Westoe]

Hello John,

Good Luck on the cyber-appeal in your last. Thank you for thinking of me while combing through TNA website. No, none of those were mine, ... but ... having put those names on here, you may have done an RAOK for a newbie Googling any of those names in future.

Cheers,
Westoe

[John1935]

Hello Westoe
As old saying goes "If you don't try  - you don't get - and if you don't get - well at least you have tried" !!
Now on that subject, I have notice of recent times, that many organisations reply to your request, by " we will pass this to our Archivist"  - and then Nothing!!, so one must assume that somewhere in each organisation's computer there exist a waste paper basket marked 'Achivist'.

So although in the past I had many times at sea been grateful for the efficiency of Trinity House, when I sent a request, and got the above reply, I didn't have much hope.

But no, only a couple of hours later Neil Jones their Archivist replied fully,(as you can see by the copy of his e mail, which could be of use to others? ) Faith restored! Thanks Neil.

" Thank you for your enquiry. Trinity House's historical pilotage records are held at the London Metropolitan Archives. LMA hold a large amount of Trinity House records, and the following sources are particularly relevant:

Registers of pilots' licences (outports) 1808-46 & 1810-76 (Ms 30174) covering different ports (Both London and outport registers give pilot's age, residence, qualifications and physical description and are indexed in Ms 30173B, held on Reading Room open shelves.)

Returns of pilotage listing pilots (by port) 1854-1912 (Ms 30198) giving name, age and qualification
 
Pilotage Committee minutes (1809-1969) (Ms 30158)

However, it may be that he was licensed by Trinity House Newcastle, which, although similar in name and function, is an entirely separate organisation. For more information, please visit their website at     
                http://www.trinityhousenewcastle.org.uk/enquiries.asp#familyandhistory   

I am sorry that we could not be of greater assistance, but wish you luck with your enquiry."

Best

John

[Westoe]

Hello John,

Hmmnn .... that last is very interesting. Maybe when you go to LMA again, I'll ask for a look-up. I wasn't quite accurate last message. I*do* have a couple of pilot-mariners, but as they are from collateral lines, I haven't yet started digging for them (smile - so many people to research, so little free time- even having the WC doesn't get me out of household chores - like shovelling snow! - the last two days, we've had our first Major! storm of the winter - quite beautiful, but also quite hard work. I do all of ours plus the shovelling for a feisty 87-year old neighbour ((and I have to get out there PDQ to forestall her trying to do it for herself)) plus frequently I do two other frail elderly neighbours  (if their children haven't got there yet). From care-giving my own parents, who both (luckily) got to die at home, in their own beds, I learned  that having the freedom to go out for a walk every day ( even if it is just two-doors-down-and-back) is crucial to morale.  Winter is a fact of life here ("Mon pays, c'est ne pas un pays, c'est l'hiver" - Gilles Vigneault), but it is not insurmountable.  So, ... as long as i am able, I shovel, (and the Lab comes out with me and cheers me on - by diving into every thrown shovelful and throwing it up into the air again with her nose).

Erm .... apologies Rootschat - I have wandered on a bit - that's a problem with continued correspondence - one  forgets that this is public email.

Cheers,
Westoe

[John1935]

Hello Westoe

Since it concerns the Royal Arch (John Tillman's ship) I have copied an e mail received from yet another helpful Canadian Gentleman, who has an excellent site all about Sunderland & it's ships and Ship building - must to read, and add to if you can. :-
 
"Thanks for this.

Upon receipt of your message, I have added Royal Arch into my build list for 1868 - here http://www.searlecanada.org/sunderland/sunderland124.html#1868

The builder was apparently 'Sykes' a new builder name to me. Ex Lloyd's Register of 1869 /70. An image of a section of the applicable page is attached. There are lots of editions of Lloyd's Register available. I know I have a link to the site on site page 100. Still in the registers at 1880/81 then owned by T. H. Williams. Tillman til the 1876/77 register but do not have 1877/78. R. G. New in 1878/79

It is likely that Corder would have referred to Sykes but Corder is not available to me.

There were a great number of vessels named Lady of the Lake. One edition of the Mercantile Navy List lists 18 of them - none of them based at Sunderland. A handful of them are in the registers. There was one of 329  tons built in Chittagong, Bangladesh, in 1820. It was still around until 1862/63 per Lloyd's Registers. Stainbank said to be the owner no city referenced. but earlier of London. I cannot spot the vessel in the very early registers but there is a vessel that matches in many aspects listed in 1840/41 in the name of Garrett & C.
Also http://users.xplornet.com/~shipping/ShipsL.htm "

Me back again anyone know or have info on 'Corder' is it like 'Keys', which reminds me, if you could rest that busy shovel for a bit, without getting snowed under, could you please re-look on Keys for
2605 'Orient', I know you sent it on the bottom of a right hand page - but does it go over to the next page please, ( Ref Angas). Snow - what's snow - he says hopefully!! anyway not yet, bit of frost, enough thanks!

Still awaiting TNA would you believe.

Best

John

[Westoe]

... Me back again anyone know or have info on 'Corder' is it like 'Keys', which reminds me, if you could rest that busy shovel for a bit, without getting snowed under, could you please re-look on Keys for
2605 'Orient', I know you sent it on the bottom of a right hand page - but does it go over to the next page please, ( Ref Angas). Snow - what's snow - he says hopefully!! anyway not yet, bit of frost, enough thanks!

Erm, John, Keys doesn't have anything on an ORIENT with ON 2605 and none of the ORIENTs he has are at the bottom of a RH page.

Are you querying the definition of snow?
Here's a short explanation:
http://sailing-ships.oktett.net/brig.html

Cheers,
Westoe