Tammy married her daughter off - ELLINgTON Family

[John1935]

Morning Westoe

Been off with computer problems ( not having a second little green beauty, like you ) oh! for a quill and ink!!

Uhm, on 1861 Census Lavinia was at home with her two younger brothers, living at 5, Ashley Crescent Clerkenwell London.She was also working in her Grandfather's Stationary Shop,near there.
From experience, found that Vicar was quite happy to accept a temporary address, so that you can marry in his Church, and William is shown on the second page of 1861 as living with his Father in the Trinity House complex in Deptford.

Couldn't see what you could see on family search re: Silas, but yes I had done quite a bit on Angas family history some time back, but had not gone into his sea career, as at time seemed to be too far out on a limb, shows how wrong one can be !! - again!

Best

John

[John1935]

Sorry, yes twas I re correcting  in 2011, spent rather along time doing that on that site until I lost faith in it and started to search elsewhere.

Best

John

p.s. Sure you are right on Silas's list of ships, could be he was filling the form in, while rolling about in a heavy sea, before reaching port, and also one must remember that his computer didn't have a spelling check - like , thank goodness this one does !!

[John1935]

"Then as recounted on the previous page, on the 8th Sept 1867 Lavinia married George William Angas in St Johns church Upper Holloway, and off they went up north, taking old man Silas and family with them. As I had found this early in my research, I didn’t know that in fact Lavinia had relatives in Sunderland, however when I  did know, it was only to realise that Tammy had died four years before Lavinia was born, and that Thomasine had died nine years before Lavinia’s wedding, however she was not entirely alone, as Thomasine’s children, lived up there.

The  first info that we have after the wedding, is the 1871 Census, stating that they lived at No.6 Bishopton Street Bishopwearmouth, William was a commercial Clerk, and Lavinia is Dressmaking, they had one girl Lavinia Annie aged three ( who had been born in North Shields) – So since cousin – Lavinia Thomasine Tillman Ellington Wilson
was living in Chirton ( a mile west of N.Shields) maybe, the newly weds first stop, was there."

Just shows what you can miss if you don't check the 'where born col. Or if it is entered incorrectly

Best

John

[John1935]

Morning Westoe

Looks as though you have been up all night again on the dreaded machine ( not green Beasty).

Could be on another winner there with Thomas Goodsir - He was born in 1762 - his first command was ' Fortitude Success' in 1786 - Then I have nothing until the 'Hope' which he had from 1798 to 1804 - so yes 'Phillis' could fit in between nicely - will see what I can find on her re 'Pastscape & clip. Only query - why London, if he was working for Fred Cornwall, then John Coulson, maybe one of them had bought the ship?

Best

John

[Westoe]

Hello John,

Why not London? A vessel could be registered anywhere. From that same file I found a third hit for one of my Shields mariners and two hits for a George Goodsir which I didn't send last night because I didn't think you were searching any further back than Thomas, he being a step-relation. Lucky in fact, that it is London, because by the time that the outports were included, those lists no longer included the master's name.

Cheers,
Westoe

[John1935]

George! - George! oh help not another one!!!

Ref 'Loss' I assume of 'Phillis' and not Thomas - I could find nothing on Pastscape, except for a couple of dutchmen that grounded themselves. Also nothing on Clip for that age.

Back to missing husband of Thomasine, still nothing, except what appears to be ref. to his father as being a prisoner of war at Valenciens - as on a Trinity house demand for aid by Mary 47 wife of Henry Ellington ( That makes four Henry's in a row !! ) dated 1812.

Best

John

p.s. Will be closing down this machine in a couple of hours, and pick up contact when I get across.

[Westoe]

Could be on another winner there with Thomas Goodsir - He was born in 1762 - his first command was ' Fortitude Success' in 1786 - Then I have nothing until the 'Hope' which he had from 1798 to 1804 - so yes 'Phillis' could fit in between nicely - will see what I can find on her re 'Pastscape & clip. Only query - why London, if he was working for Fred Cornwall, then John Coulson, maybe one of them had bought the ship?

Hello John,

For the ownership, you would have to look at the Shipping Register for Port of London for that year. (I had hoped that I would recognize PHILLIS in Lloyd's register to find the ownership information, but altho' there is one PHILLIS there in both 1800 and 1801, neither appear to be her.)

I haven't looked up to see which archive holds those old registers. If you can find it, the look-up could be quick because the vessels were entered in date order and I have given you both the date and her number in the sequence (rotation number) which is C167. I *thought* that the 'C' meant that she had been registered in that port before (i.e. C = continues), but I don't see her in the 1792 list.

And ... one slight possible complication, but you need to download the file and look at a few pages to see what I mean. Thos. Goodsir's name is written in above the vessel name. No problem with the lateral direction - names of replacement masters started in the leftmost column so as to have room to enter them all (some vessels had 5 or 6). But ... there seems to be some inconsistency in the vertical direction. Sometimes it is not clear whether that replacement master name belongs to the vessel  listed above it or below it. In assigning TG to PHILLIS, I am going by the position of the pre-printed lines on the paper, but there is the possibility that he should be assigned to PITT, which is #C157 in 1793 (registered 7 August 1793) and #375 in 1803.

Clear as mud, init?

Wishing you Good Hunting! in London and I hope that you can find that wreck report for ACADIA in that 5-foot thick file at NMM.

Cheers,
Westoe

[John1935]

Hello Westoe

Am Orf now - will bathe in the MUD later and see what I can find.

Best

John

[John1935]

First bits, of I hope, interest are: That having got the Masters  certs  for both Silas Angas and John Tillman from The CAIRD Library in Greenwich, I then hopefully went to the LMA to follow them on Captain's Registers - but they did not appear !!! - now on a re read of LMA 's Leaflet No. 50, ( Captain's registers) they do point out that - one reason for not finding them, could be that although they had Master's certs - they had ceased active service before 1869.

In both cases this proved to be true, so with help from the efficient LMA staff, and the fact that I knew that Silas's wife had applied to Trinity House, we had a look at the Registers of Almspeople 1845 - 1971 ( Ms 302191) and sure enough he had entered Deptford Trinity in 1858 - one solved.
Now for John, who after a long search we found had died in 1868 in Sulina Roumania - this was noted on a Probate from Durham - so that tied in- only search now must be old newspapers, problem as always is on John's side he was not the only Captain Tillman sailing the oceans at that moment in time.

Other trawling that might be of general interest I will put on when I have it all sorted out, and I've cleared up the garden, mowed the lawn etc !!!!

Best

John