Tammy married her daughter off - ELLINgTON Family

[John1935]

Thanks very much Janey

Just what I was looking for, so Tammy was a Lympstone girl, and rules out a previous tie up between the Warrens and a Tillman from Sunderland.
Best John

[JaneyCanuck]

Looks like! Remember, Devon women not infrequently married men who were in Devon in the military or on ships, and apparently Thomasin was one of 'em.

[John1935]

Hello Westoe

Have just found another of John Tillman's ships on Lloyd's list 1865 just for 4 months :

'Louisa' (Ship) 903 T  171.6 x 34.4 x 20 reg London built by Teighe & Co. South Shields 1860.

Still on searching John's roots - seem to have advanced a bit with thanks to the Devon site :

' The Mystery of Tammy Warren's Children'

Still no sign that John was one of hers, but could belong to a certain Josias Tillman.

Best

John

[John1935]

Hello 'L'

If you are reading still, think I might have found more of Tammy's Husband's (Thomas Goodsir) ships, which could fit in between ones we already know :

After 'Fortitude Success' he could have been on 'Little Betsey' by DEC 1787 we then know that he took command of 'Phillis', on the 16th Aug 1793.

Next he shows on 'Charlotte' on the 31st March 1797 before being on the 'Hope'  1798 to 1804.

Lastly is ,'Vicissitude' where on the 23rd Aug 1808 she was got off the Goodwin Sands,
then as we already know - 'Spring' - 'Malvina' - 'Transfer' - 'Eleanor' - and 'The Brothers'.

Newest in bold came from further searching Lloyd's List, but due to the fact that he died before Master's certificates came about, I can find no back-up.

Best

John

[John1935]

Hello Westoe, have found another puzzle for you !

In searching for Thomasin's Third child Thomas, up to this week, all I knew was that he had in 1853 married Mabel Joplin, but from then on could not find them on any census, until I came across a
RG 9/4488 - when translated stands for :
List of Officers, Crew, Marines, as well as Passengers and visitors on board on the Night of Sunday, April 7th 1861.

The ship ? was called 'Pembroke' and Thomas was down as a Caulker's mate, married, 29 Yrs, born Sunderland.  Question what was the Pembroke, was it Royal Navy, or a training establishment ?

What makes me ask, is that amongst the others on the page, you have a Sailmaker -Master at Arms -  Quartermaster - Captain Mizzen Top - Captain Main Top - Coxwain Pinnace - Captain Fore castle etc ( reminds me of my time on the 'Conway' ).

Next, which I should have found first!! came BT 116/31 - that showed that Thomas in 1853 ( the year he was married) was on the ' City of Rotterdam' and then in 1856, on the same page he is 24yrs old and from Sunderland, a Carpenter aboard ' Travancore' reg. London.

Lastly on a BT 334 (box 11) he died onboard the 'Tudor Prince' 74726 in May 1895 on the same ship and within a few months - Steward - Howey and Soucrip also died - a nasty history there ?

Best

John

[JaneyCanuck]

I don't know whether this is part of your question or what might be a nasty history, but if you do a search of the 1901 census using nothing but TUDOR PRINCE as keywords, you find the people on board in that census:

Henry James Claridge    28 officer in charge
Alice May Claridge    24 wife of
William Edward McAvoy    41 steward
Albert Wilson    23 engineer
Constantine Lucas    38 boatswain
Vito Lazzari    46 able seaman

at Salthouse Dock in Liverpool Lancashire.

If you go to the next page of the census book, you see that the Tudor Prince was based in Newcastle on Tyne, a steamer, and for "how employed": Mediterranean, with the notation "For." beside it.

Also not sure whether this is what you're meaning, but if you look at the first page of the census book for Thomas Ellington in 1861, it states that it is an enumeration book for the Royal Navy, name of ship Pembroke, etc. There are Navy personnel on board, and then after those pages, a couple of pages of Royal Marines and a couple of pages, at the end of the 15 pages in all, of "boy first class" ranging in age down to 15. It seems to be a regular Navy vessel.

[Westoe]

Have just found another of John Tillman's ships on Lloyd's list 1865 just for 4 months :

'Louisa' (Ship) 903 T  171.6 x 34.4 x 20 reg London built by Teighe & Co. South Shields 1860.

Hello John,

Apologies for the long silence - Have been trying to get the bulbs planted (bought far too many daffs this fall) and the lilies split (over 100 and they're all been reproducing like rabbits) and the garden in general put to bed. Still haven't got the storm windows on the front of the house and we had freezing sleet last night.

Your LOUISA being London registered, Keys is no help and in that BT file, they stopped naming the masters partway through 1855, so no joy there either. So .... I'm sad to say ... I haven't any goodies for you this message.

Wishing you Good Hunting! in Devon.

Cheers,
Westoe

[Westoe]

In searching for Thomasin's Third child Thomas, up to this week, all I knew was that he had in 1853 married Mabel Joplin, but from then on could not find them on any census, until I came across a
RG 9/4488 - when translated stands for :
List of Officers, Crew, Marines, as well as Passengers and visitors on board on the Night of Sunday, April 7th 1861.

The ship ? was called 'Pembroke' and Thomas was down as a Caulker's mate, married, 29 Yrs, born Sunderland.  Question what was the Pembroke, was it Royal Navy, or a training establishment ?

Erm ... RN isn't my specialty, but it seems to me that this PEMBROKE may have been a shore establishment at Chatham, Kent.

What makes me ask, is that amongst the others on the page, you have a Sailmaker -Master at Arms -  Quartermaster - Captain Mizzen Top - Captain Main Top - Coxwain Pinnace - Captain Fore castle etc ( reminds me of my time on the 'Conway' ).

Next, which I should have found first!! came BT 116/31 - that showed that Thomas in 1853 ( the year he was married) was on the ' City of Rotterdam' and then in 1856, on the same page he is 24yrs old and from Sunderland, a Carpenter aboard ' Travancore' reg. London.

Lastly on a BT 334 (box 11) he died onboard the 'Tudor Prince' 74726 in May 1895 on the same ship and within a few months - Steward - Howey and Soucrip also died - a nasty history there ?

Erm ... do you mean TUDOR PRINCE of the Prince Line, built by Joseph L Thompson and Sons Ltd., at Sunderland? If so, yet another reason to make that trip north - lots of info on her in TWAS catalogue.

13    DS.JLT/4/7/204    SubSeries    Specifications for yard no. 204, 'Tudor Prince'    1884    
14    DS.JLT/4/7/204/1    Item    Hull specification for yard no. 204, 'Tudor Prince'    c1884    
15    DS.JLT/4/7/204/2    Item    Engine specification for yard no. 204, 'Tudor Prince'    17 September 1884    
16    DS.JLT/4/9/45    Item    Particulars and cost book for yard no. 204, 'Tudor Prince'    1884    
17    DS.JLT/4/PL/1/204/9    Item    Profile plan for yard no. 204 'Tudor Prince'    c1884

And, being as she was regularly on the West Indies, Jamaica, Vera Cruz run, fever is a possibilty for the deaths.

Cheers,
Westoe
Best

John

[Westoe]

From: http://www.histarmar.com.ar/LineasPaxaSA/339-PrinceLine.htm

Tudor Prince (1)    1884    1902 sold to Sweden renamed Probus.    1,521