Benedetto Angelo

[dathai]

hi all, i am married to a Pacelli in Dublin , my wifes great grandparents were Vincent Pacelli and Mary Rose Savino, according to the irish censuses of 1901/1911 they spent 10 years at least in ireland and probably 10 before that in Midlothian ,Scotland where their daughter Maria Antonia married a Rizza. on the 1911 census of dublin Vincent and Mary Rose say they had five children i can only account for three of them Francis born 1868 Marsicovetere Italy ,Joseph [giuseppe] born about 1870 and Maria Antonia born about 1875.Francis and Joseph stayed in Ireland and reared families here,Joseph died in dublin 1912 and Vincent and Mary Rose went back to their daughter in Scotland and then emigrated in 1913 from Scotland aboard The Grampian to Canada where it is most likely they died as they were in their 70s when emigrating would like to know their burial places if possible, while browsing the Ontario deaths on family search.org i found a death for Benedetto Angelo wife of  Guy Gaetano Angelo on 1st aug 1933 at Brantford Ontario which gives her parents as Vincent Pacelli and Mary Sevino i am wondering is this one of the missing siblings any info on this much appreciated. A more consise family tree can be found on this blog ''Family Roots /Love Louisa.

[aghadowey]

For reference here are the 1901 and 1911 census links-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Trinity/Brunswick_St__Great__Part_/1309640
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Trinity_Ward/Brunswick_Street__Great_/88615

[AMBLY]

Hi Dathai

To start the ball rolling 

DEATH: Registered Toronto, York County, Ontario
Vincent PACELLI, died 16 Apr 1914, age 79,
Born Italy, married, occ: Labourer
Died at 153 Manering Avenue
Neither of his parents are named on the Death registration
Informant: J RYAN of 37 Arthur Street (no relationship stated but his/her address is on the same road but different number, to the physician.)

DEATH: Registered Toronto, York County, Ontario
Maria Rosa PACELLA, died 12 Feb 1918 age 80
Born Italy, widowed,
Died at: 173 Mannering Avenue
Place of Burial: Mt Hope
Neither of her parents are named on the Death registration
Informant: Ryan & Son, Dundas St West

DEATH: Registered Brantford Twp, Brant Cty, Ontario
*Benedetta ANGELO died 1 Aug 1933,  age 71,
Born Italy on 24th Jan, married, occ: house duties
Died at her home address, 91 Strathcoma Avenue,
Had lived in Ontario 21 years, all at her stated place of residence
(Did not state how long she had been in Canada)
Father: Vincent PACELLI
Mother: Mary SEVINO
Informant: Guy Gaetano Angelo, husband of same address
Buried St Joseph;'s Cemetery on 3rd August

[*Her name was registered as Benedetta - the female form is -a at the end,  (-o is male) ]

What a shame neither Vincent or Maria Rosa's parents are named on the death records 
I do think on the names alone,  Benedetta  belongs - she'd be the eldest to date - will see if we can find her coming into Canada!

Cheers
AMBLY

[AMBLY]

If their ages at death are correct, it looks to me as if they shaved  at least a decade each of their ages when they travelled to Canada....

TRAVEL 1913: SS "Grampian" arrives Quebec 2 Jun 1913 out of Glasgow.
Vincent (67) and Maria R (65) PACELLI, Italian Birth & race
Going to Toronto, Ontario to join daughter
Have never been to Canada before

... but their ages in the 1891 Census is more in keeping with the Travel ages:
1891: 79 Grassmarket, New GreyFriars, Edinburgh
Head: Vincent PACELLI 53, Musician, b Italy
Wife: Maria Rosa PACELLI 45, b Italy
Dau: Maria Antonia PACELLI 16, b Italy

Cheers
AMBLY

[dathai]

thank you Aghadowey for the link to census.  well Ambly what can i say i was'nt expecting that quick a response and thats a great bit of info you've posted there between the death certs and immigration record. There is a large extended family from Francis and Joseph in Dublin and now extended across the world who will be delighted with this info. I happened to get Vincent and Mary Rose parents from a lovely lady by the name of Judy Cavallo who is descended or married into Maria Antonia's Rizza family[husbands name Michaelangelo Rizza] Judy happens to have a family bible belong to her husband and she posted the names on Louisa's blog for us,Vincents parents Guiseppe Rosario Pacelli and Benedetta Marino, Mary Roses were Francisco Savino and Yolanda Frantonia thats as far as ive got other than the address for Francis birthplace in 1868 from a travel document in 1919 coming back from Canada possibly from his mothers burial? many thanks for your time and effort much appreciated Dathai.

[AMBLY]

Hi

You're most welcome!  A little more for you:

Benedetta and Gaetano/Geatona ("Guy) ANGELO, lost a son in WW1.
He was Louis Aloysius Angelo, age 21
His Address in Canada when attesting  on 30 Jan 1916, age 18 & 1 mth.: 87 Strathcoma Ave.
He was born in Edinburgh, 30 Dec 1897
he identified himself as Presbyterian .

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/index-e.html
http://www.canadiangreatwarproject.com/searches/soldierDetail.asp?Id=13248

There is a marriage 1884, Midlothian for a male ANGELO and a female PACELLO ( actually there are 2 showing up, on Scotland People, exactly the same). Can't bring the forenames up - not sure they've been indexed 

Couldn't find a birth for Louis Aloysius ANGELO indexed in Scotlands People  - but there is a birth of Luigi ANTONELLI, 1898 in St Giles, Midlothian - see below:

They are in 1891 Census Scotland as "Antonelli" :
89 Wardens Close, GreyFriars, Edinburgh St Giles, Midlothian
Head: Gaotams ANTONELLI 29, Musician, b Italy
Wife: Benedetta ANTONELLI 29, b Italy
Son: Michaelangelo ANTONELLI 6, b Edinburgh
Dau: Maria ANTONELLi 4 yrs, 4mths,  b Edinburgh
Dau: Augerno ANTONELLI  2½ years, b Edinburgh
Son: Saverio ANTONELLI 6mths, b Edinburgh

and in 1901:
89 Grassmarket, GreyFriars, Edinburgh St Giles, Midlothian
Head: Gaetano ANTONELLI 38, Organ Grinder Ice cream Vendor, b Italy, Italian Subject
Wife: Benedetta ANTONELLI 38, b Italy, Italian Subject
Son: Michel Angelo ANTONELLI 16, Violin Player, b Edinburgh
Dau: Maria ANTONELLI 14, Organ Grinder, b Edinburgh
Dau: Teresa ANTONELLI 9, scholar, b Edinburgh
Son: Savcrio ANTONELLI 6, scholar, b Edinburgh
Son: Luigi ANTONELLI 3, b Edinburgh (this will be Louis Aloyisius?)
Dau: Eugenia ANTONELLI 3mths,  b Edinburgh

Cheers
AMBLY

Edit: Saverio (sp) is a son, not a dau!   He was called Sammy, when he immigrated to Canada (see next).

[AMBLY]

And a bit more 

TRAVEL: Steerage, SS "Ionian", arrived 30 May 1911, Quebec, out of Glasgow
Gaetano ANTONELLI  48,  b Italy, Labourer, Going to son, Hotel Porter
Sammy ANTONELLI 16,b Scotland, Barber,  Going to brother, Hotel Porter
Destination: Brantford Ontario
Occupations: as in Scotland & intended in Canada
Religion: Roman Catholic


TRAVEL:   Steerage, SS "Scandanavian" arrived 29 Sep 1912 Montreal, out of Glasgow
Benedetta ANTONELLI  50, married, b Italy, going to join Husband, Housewife
Teresa ANTONELLI 19, single, b Scotland, Domestic,
Louis ANTONELLI 14, b Scotland, Bakers Asst,
Jenny ANTONELLI 11, b Scotland
Joseph ANTONELLI  3 wks, b Scotland
Destination: Brantford, Ontario
Occupations: as in Scotland & intended in Canada
Religion: Roman Catholic

Cheers
AMBLY

[dathai]

I am starting to fall over backwards reeling from the shock of all this info, i never expected this ,i would say the antonelli's are probly the same angelos due to the grassmarket connection, strange thing on louisas blog she mentions that 2 or 3 of Maria Antonias sons died in that war [Rizza] gave me the impression that they may have falsified their ages. judging by what you said about Benedetta being in ontario for 21 years could possibly give her an immigration date of 1912 as Vincent said he was going to his daughters residence. thanks again.

[AMBLY]

And here just a wee bit more: 

This resource is great, but doesn't give dates unfortunately:
http://ocfa.islandnet.com/ocfa-search.php

Guedano ANTONELLI (husband of Benedetta PAGELLI) buried St Joseph's Cemetery, Brantford, Brant, Ontario,

Also in same Cemetery:
Benedetta PAGELLI, wife of Geudano ANTONELLI
Mary ANTONELLI wife of Nicholas ANDRETTA
Michael A ANTONELLI
Teresa Marie ANTONELLI, wife of Geatano TORTI

Cheers
AMBLY