Census lookup 1870-1890 Thomas Frederick Morley

[Sepirothnz]

Hi Im trying to find a link between Thomas Frederick Morley born in New Plymouth 1853, died in Hastings 1926 and Gordon Harrison Morley whom I think is his son born 17/8/1883.

Also I am trying to find Thomas's father, the only person I can sort of match is George Morley who arrived in Nelson, NZ in 1842 from Sussex. 

Would be great to find hard evidence to link these guys together.

Cheers

Carl

[TwiggyTree]

Hello Sepirothnz

Welcome to Rootschat!

We don't have any archived census records to help but do have an online index of births, deaths and marriages.

This shows a birth for Gordon:
1883/14773   Morley   Gordon Harrison   Rhoda   Thomas Frederick

and his siblings
1880/12994   Morley   Sydney   Rhoda   Thomas Frederick
1878/14814   Morley   Irvine   Rhoda   Thomas Frederick
1876/16422   Morley   Thomas Frederick   Rhoda   Thomas Frederick
1874/970     Morley   Rhoda Kate   Rhoda   Thomas Frederick
1880/12994   Morley   Sydney   Rhoda   Thomas Frederick

Twiggy

[Beg Clonrode...]

Hello...

Welcome to Rootschat

Sorry I can't make a definite link between Thomas Frederick MORLEY and the George MORLEY who arrived in Nelson in 1842.

But if it's of any help I can make a fairly flimsy link between the two of them

EDIT:

Before I get carried away, I just noticed that you mentioned that Thomas Frederick MORLEY was "born in New Plymouth in 1853". This makes my following post redundant as the George I mention below was living in Nelson in 1853.

The following obituary mentions that this George only resided in Taranaki from 1864 to 1877

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0u6n/

So what actual record do you have of this 1853 New Plymouth birth.

For what it's worth, the BDM NZ Births microfiche has the following 1853 birth registered in Nelson...

1853/126 - MORLEY, Un-named Male

And now back to the fairly flimsy link...

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Here is the 1902 Will of Margaret MORLEY, wife of George MORLEY of Nelson...
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0u6c/

It mentions two of her children, daughter Emma Jane and son Edward James.

Here is her 1902 death notice...
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0u6d/

...her and her husband's Golden Wedding notice
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0u6f/

...and her arrival into Nelson
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0u6e/

Here is the 1896 death notice for her husband George...
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0u6h/

...which mentions that they lived in Taranaki from 1864 to 1878-ish

The 1874 marriage of Thomas Frederick MORLEY to Rhoda HARRISON took place in Taranaki and mentions that George MORLEY was "late of Nelson"
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0u6g/

As I said, a fairly flimsy link. But, if it is proven, you've got a wealth of family history from the death notices of George and Margaret.

-----

Here are the children listed on the BDM NZ website to a George and Margaret MORLEY.

1857/06004 - MORLEY, NR - mother: Margaret  father: George

1860/08321 - MORLEY, William Gordon Bell - mother: Margaret  father: George
Died 11 Apr 1860 - http://www.rootschat.com/links/0u70/

1861/09169 - MORLEY, Edward James - mother: Margaret  father: George

1864/10766 - MORLEY, Emma Jane - mother: Margaret  father: George

1868/16271 - MORLEY, Charles Christie - mother: Margaret  father: George
Died 14 March 1883 - http://www.rootschat.com/links/0u71/

1874/17217 - MORLEY, Arthur Alfred Clement - mother: Margaret  father: George

EDIT:

The BDM NZ Births microfiche lists the above 1857 birth as...

1857/149 - MORLEY, Un-named Female - Registered in Nelson


There are possibly three names unrecorded, two boys (eldest son and second eldest son Thomas Frederick) and one girl (Mary Hilda, elder daughter - see below)

Here is the 1884 marriage of the elder daughter Mary Hilda MORLEY
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0u6k/

Here is her death notice, four years later.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0u6y/

The 1896 death notice for George MORLEY says he leaves five sons. As two sons had pre-deceased him (William Gordon d.1860 and Charles Christie MORLEY d.1883) it means there were (at least) seven sons.

Regards
Beg

[Beg Clonrode...]

Hi again...

For the purposes of elimination, here's an 1887 affidavit by Isabel Ann MORLEY of Napier, widow of George Frederick MORLEY, draper who died in 1877.

The affidavit says he has only two surviving sons by his widow Isabel, namely James John MORLEY and George Frederick MORLEY, both born post-1856.

No Thomas Frederick MORLEY.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0u6w/

But having said that, it's still possible that the deceased George Frederick MORLEY had a son called Thomas Frederick MORLEY b.1853 by another woman.

So not really eliminated after all.

Regards
Beg

[Beg Clonrode...]

There are possibly three names unrecorded, two boys (eldest son and second eldest son Thomas Frederick) and one girl (Mary Hilda, elder daughter)

Hi again...

The oldest son may be called George.

The following 1888 funeral notice for the older daughter Mary Hilda BROOKES was inserted by her brother George.

Mary Hilda BROOKES d.1888
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0u6x/

This is most likely his 1929 death notice.

George MORLEY b.1848-ish d.1929
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0u6z/

Regards
Beg

[Beg Clonrode...]

Hi again...

Here's a snippet about Eliza, the younger sister of George (the father b.1820-ish, not his son b.1848-ish).

"This same year, William Gordon the Younger married Eliza Morley. She had arrived in Nelson in 1842, aged 18, accompanied by her brother. By 1846, she had had the tragic misfortune to suffer the loss of her fiance, her young son and her first husband, all by drowning."

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0u72/

Further down on the same page is mention of a William Gordon BELL. These were the names given to George and Margaret's son born in 1860.

Maybe to do with Mr BELL naming one of his children Winham Morley BELL b.1853

Maybe not.

-----

And a later mention of Eliza

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0u73/

Regards
Beg

[Beg Clonrode...]

Hi again...

Here is the 1926 death notice for Thomas Fredrick MORLEY. Plus his obituary from the following day's newspaper. Both were on Page 4 of their respective editions.

Nothing that hasn't already been mentioned in this thread except for his time in the Militia and Constabulary. Annoyingly there's no mention of his mother or birthplace.

You could try tracking down his time in the Militia. Wellington Archives is the place for that. I'm sure he'll be mentioned somewhere in a Muster Book which should have his personal details.

Death Notice
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0u7x/

Obituary
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0u7w/

-----

NZ Militia, Volunteers and Armed Constabulary of New Zealand 1863-1871
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0u7y/

-----

Wellington Archives - Armed Constabulary Description Book
[P 8/1; MICRO 6429]
Information given in the Description Book may include: number, swearing-in date, appointment, place of birth, occupation, physical characteristics.

Index to Description book
http://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=17717715

Nominal index to Armed Constabulary personnel records
http://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=17717717

Regards
Beg

[Sepirothnz]

Thanks Beg for the info, it has been a great read!

So this link, Obituary http://www.rootschat.com/links/0u7w/
confirms Thomas Frederick's father as George Morley, along with the other info it is safe to say that this is correct.

This also says he leaves behind four sons, Gordon (my great grandfather), Sydney, Irvine and Thomas Frederick and one daughter Rhoda Kate, which matchs with BDM records.

I have no birth record for Thomas Frederick born in 1853 so I cannot confirm where he was born, I was told New Plymouth from another family member but it could possibly be Nelson going off the un-named record which would match everything up.


SO is it safe to conclude that George Morley of Nelson was Thomas Frederick's (born 1853) father? 

[Beg Clonrode...]

SO is it safe to conclude that George Morley of Nelson was Thomas Frederick's (born 1853) father? 

It depends

As the birth took place several generations ago I'm guessing a proper genealogist would only accept a birth certificate as proof of the relationship. As the likely birth certificate says "Un-Named Male" I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be good enough.

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I think the only acceptable alternative would be to find the baptism record for Thomas Frederick MORLEY and hope the baptism happened within a few days of the "Un-Named Male" birth. And, of course, the parents on both the baptism certificate and the birth certificate would have to be the same.

Unfortunately the Nelson Council cemetery website lists the parents, George and Margaret, as Presbyterian and according to the following link there are no surviving Presbyterian baptism registers for the Trinity Presbyterian Church in Nelson pre-1892.

http://www.archives.presbyterian.org.nz/NelsonMarlboroughPresbytery.htm

There is always a possibility that Thomas was baptised into a different faith. You might consider contacting or visiting the Nelson Museum or the Anglican Centre. They have some baptism indexes.

Nelson Museum
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0u89/

Anglican Centre - Diocese of Nelson
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0u88/

-----

A third option, which personally I could live with, would be to match the date of birth on the "Un-Named Male" birth certificate with the date of birth on Thomas's Militia or Constabulary personnel file, assuming it exists.

-----

A fourth option would be to Y-DNA test a direct male descendant of Thomas Frederick MORLEY b.1853 and compare it to a Y-DNA test of a direct male descendant of George MORLEY b.1820-ish. A bit costly but fairly conclusive.

-----

For what it's worth I think it's the right Thomas. But I also think you're not going to find an accepted primary source linking Thomas b.1853 to George b.1820-ish.

Your best bet is a secondary source. And the best secondary source I can think of is the "Parent's Details" column on a printout of the 1926 death certificate for Thomas. Hopefully the informant knew the details of Thomas's parents, in particular his mother's maiden name. Fingers crossed that it's FREEMAN.

Regards
Beg