James O'Brien, recruiting sergeant, Castlecomer Kilkenny mid/late 1800s

[Kizzandra]

Hi all,  newbie question so please be kind.

I am looking for  James (John) O'Brien (husband of Mary Jean McCabe), the father of 3 siblings born in Castlecomer, Co Kilkenny bet 1860 & 1875, who emigrated to Australia, bet 1886 & 1895. Siblings traveled under the names Brynn and O'Brien.  I assume them to be of the BREEN clan.

The marriage certs of elder two their father as a horse-trainer and farmer. 
The youngest death cert states he was a recruiting sergeant.
Family myth is that he died before his time (possibly hung?), and may have been the precipitating factor for the siblings emigration.

I am guessing, (from his eldest daughters' vehement anti English stance), that if this is true it is more likely he joined an Irish force but this is only a feeling.

I know almost nothing about Irish military forces of this time, although I am about to learn for I have a heap of questions.  Was Recruiting Sergeant an actual position? How long would it have taken for someone to work up to that position? are there muster rolls or other records? Would these have been recorded in english or irish records? in english or irish language?   In summary, where do I start? 

Thanks a bunch

[FamilyDet]

Hi,

I am doing a little bit of research on this O'Brien family.  Would love to compare notes.

[Kizzandra]

Love to compare notes. I am usually in Australia, but am travelling through uk this easter, so a phonecall is not out of the question.  I have most of the Australian line. Cheers Kiz

[aghadowey]

...
I am guessing, (from his eldest daughters' vehement anti English stance), that if this is true it is more likely he joined an Irish force but this is only a feeling.

I know almost nothing about Irish military forces of this time, although I am about to learn for I have a heap of questions.  Was Recruiting Sergeant an actual position? How long would it have taken for someone to work up to that position? are there muster rolls or other records? Would these have been recorded in english or irish records? in english or irish language?   In summary, where do I start? 

"From 1660 to 1922, the Irish were part of the British armed services. Consequently, pre-1922 records for Irish military personnel are mostly British."
http://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Ireland_Military_Records

If he was a farmer & horse trainer I wonder if he could have supplied horses to the Army- either by selling them his own or acting as their agent and purchasing horses on behalf of the Army.

[km1971]

Was Recruiting Sergeant an actual position?

They did not have a separate Recruiting Department in these days. Regiments who were serving overseas kept a Depot in the UK. The Depot would have several recruiting parties around the country; each of a few men with a Sergeant or Corporal in charge. These parties would find recruits and take them to wherever the Depot was. So it sounds as if he was with one of these, with over 100 regiments to choice from. If he was away from his regiment for a while it would appear to his family that this was his permanent role.

A typical battalion would have about 32 Sergeants out of about 750 rank and file. So promotion to Sergeant would take a while.

Alternatively, he may have been on the permanent staff of the Kilkenny Militia. The musters are in the National Archive (and not online)

If you do not know where/when James/John was born you should obtain the birth certificate of any child born after civil registration was introduction in Ireland in the 1860s. These usually give the father's regiment. Once you have that you can look on FindMyPast again; or again look up the musters in Kew. Plain paper copies only cost four Euros.

There are just too many of these names in the Findmypast soldiers records. If he died while serving they would not have kept his record anyway.

As already said this was the British army, so the language would be English.

Ken