Author Topic: Life of a village postman - Bamburgh 1813-1854  (Read 6682 times)

Offline ChrissieL

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Re: Life of a village postman - Bamburgh 1813-1854
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 19 May 13 17:39 BST (UK) »
Probably isnt the marriage as on the 1851 census as Joseph Marsdens daughter was born in 1822 in Bamburgh ans also his sister in law is with him and she was also born in Bamburgh
Staffordshire: Lawton Probyn Horrobin
Durham: Bamlett Hardman Winship Robinson
Suffolk: Leggett

Offline Gen List Lass

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Re: Life of a village postman - Bamburgh 1813-1854
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 19 May 13 19:33 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the input all of you.

I know of his census, marriage, baptisms of all his girls and his death.

It is his working life I am now interested in.

He was a butler at a big house before going to NBL. Then a publican in Bamburgh for a couple of years. The appointment details are very interesting. Seems as though he job-shared.

I will check out thae postal site, thanks.

Gen in Nbl England
UK - Northumberland, County Durham: ANDERSON,   DODD(S), EDWARDS, ELLIOTT/ELLET, FENWICK, GREY/GRAY, HINDMARCH and variants, JORDAN, MOORE, MURRAY, RIPPON, RODDHAM, RYDER-TURNER, SPARK(E)(S), STEWART, TILLEY, TIPLADY, WATSON,
Sheffield: TURNER
Middlesex: RYDER
<br />Aberdeenshire: EDWARDS, BRODIE<br />Angus STEWART, DIXON, PETRIE

Offline WolfieSmith

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Re: Life of a village postman - Bamburgh 1813-1854
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 19 May 13 19:43 BST (UK) »
Some family trees on Ancestry have Josephs sister-in-law in 1851, Isabella Gibson, as being formerly Isabella Darling, and an Aunt of Grace Darling. They don't make any link to Joseph or his wife Catherine, but interestingly there is a marriage on Familysearch :

12 Jul 1808, Middleton Lancashire, Joseph Marsden and Catherine Darling.

Alan.
Northumberland - Smith, Willis,
Durham - Rogerson, Child
Cumberland - Irving, Hill
North Yorkshire - Layfield,
Ireland - Collins

Offline Gen List Lass

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Re: Life of a village postman - Bamburgh 1813-1854
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 19 May 13 21:52 BST (UK) »
Wolfie

Don't worry about that Gibson/Darling link, I've scoured the original parish registers in Northumberland and Scotland and there is no such marriage. At least none I can find. I've also looked at the Cross Border Irregular marriages.

The marriage in Middleton is the correct one!

I always take family trees on Ancestry with the same BIG pinch of salt that I take with the IGI. Interesting but not worth anything until proven.....

Gen in NBL England
UK - Northumberland, County Durham: ANDERSON,   DODD(S), EDWARDS, ELLIOTT/ELLET, FENWICK, GREY/GRAY, HINDMARCH and variants, JORDAN, MOORE, MURRAY, RIPPON, RODDHAM, RYDER-TURNER, SPARK(E)(S), STEWART, TILLEY, TIPLADY, WATSON,
Sheffield: TURNER
Middlesex: RYDER
<br />Aberdeenshire: EDWARDS, BRODIE<br />Angus STEWART, DIXON, PETRIE


Offline WolfieSmith

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Re: Life of a village postman - Bamburgh 1813-1854
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 19 May 13 22:01 BST (UK) »
Gen,

Grace Darlings sister Thomasin is living next door to Catherine Marsden and family in 1841 census.

Grace Darling had a brother named William Brooks Darling baptized 1819 at Bamburgh. Joseph and Catherine named one of their children Isabella Brooks Marsden, baptized at Bamburgh in 1817.

None of the online family trees of Grace Darling have an aunt called Catherine Darling, but they do have a Christian Darling. Not clear whether male or female and no marriage details, but they all have a death for Christian at Bamburgh in October 13th 1841. Catherine Marsden was buried October 14th 1841.

Too many coincidences for me, definitely a connection there.

Alan.
Northumberland - Smith, Willis,
Durham - Rogerson, Child
Cumberland - Irving, Hill
North Yorkshire - Layfield,
Ireland - Collins

Offline Gen List Lass

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Re: Life of a village postman - Bamburgh 1813-1854
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 19 May 13 22:19 BST (UK) »
Yes, I agree the circumstantial evidence is strong.

After the "Grace Darling, heroine of the shipwrecd episode" (her poor father who rowed the blummin' boat didn't get any of the credit except a medal, she got all the cash) many folks in Bamburgh and elsewhere, called their bairns "Darling". Usually as a middle name.

I've also found a local family bible this week with the claim that the family is descended from an aunt of Grace DArling but that claim doesn't hold water either.

If there is a link between Joseph and Catherine (nee Darling) MARSDEN and the family of Grace Darling, it is a quite distant link as none of the immediate family was called Catherine.

However, I'm still keeping an open mind as the Darlings were Presbyterian now and then, but not all of those records are available or extant.

This is straying from the main purpose of my original query - the life of a rural postman :-X

Gen in NBL England

Gen in NBL England
UK - Northumberland, County Durham: ANDERSON,   DODD(S), EDWARDS, ELLIOTT/ELLET, FENWICK, GREY/GRAY, HINDMARCH and variants, JORDAN, MOORE, MURRAY, RIPPON, RODDHAM, RYDER-TURNER, SPARK(E)(S), STEWART, TILLEY, TIPLADY, WATSON,
Sheffield: TURNER
Middlesex: RYDER
<br />Aberdeenshire: EDWARDS, BRODIE<br />Angus STEWART, DIXON, PETRIE

Offline Joe Catcheside

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Re: Life of a village postman - Bamburgh 1813-1854
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 14 June 15 01:26 BST (UK) »
Hi,

I’m researching Grace Darling, and I’m very keen to understand her context. I’d be very interested to hear anything you find about the life of a postmaster in the 1830/40s, if you’d be willing to share.

The Marsden’s are part of the Darling family (or vice versa, if you prefer!).

Grace refers to “a letter from Uncle Marsden”, in a letter to her parents sent from a visit to a family friend in Wooler in late summer 1842 (quoted in Atkinson and Smedley, listed at the end).

The visit itself was unusual, as Grace rarely left the lighthouse for prolonged periods of time so far as we know; it was part of her convalescence, but her health deteriorated quickly after this time, and after spending some time in Alnwick with her cousins John & Ann MacFarlane in Narrowgate; and then in Green Batt., Prudhoe Street, at the expense of her guardian the Duke of Northumberland, she was finally brought home to Bamburgh, to the Marsden’s home, where she died on October 20th 1842.

The house is commemorated with a wall plaque; it is now a corner shop, and in the earliest image I have seen of it (late 19th Century postcard), it was a post office (and essentially identical in appearance). You can see it in current form here, where it is the shop with a phonebox outside: http://www.gracedarling.co.uk/Bamburgh.html

I was there last month – the owner says it’s actually two houses, in that there are two separate stairways inside, as if the original narrow terraces were knocked together soon after construction. She also said that though the walls are 5’ thick, they just can’t keep it warm in winter!

The 1841 census has the occupiers as follows;

Cathrine Marsdon, 60; Cathrine Marsdon, 20; Anne Marsdon, 15
John Little, 35; Elizabeth Little, 25; John Little, 1
John Towsey, 30; Isabella Dryden, 15

The separation into three households is mine; the text-indexing at Ancestry.com has them as one household, but the 1841 census wasn’t always terribly accurate in tying people to specific properties. The preceding record is Thomasin Darling, one of Grace’s elder twin sisters and her nurse through her mortal illness; though again this doesn’t necessarily mean she was living next door.

I went looking for Joseph Marsden on that census – he’s not there, he’s in Belford, age 60, listed as a postman.


Offline Joe Catcheside

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Re: Life of a village postman - Bamburgh 1813-1854
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 14 June 15 01:27 BST (UK) »
There’s an interesting twist, here: both Grace, in a drafted letter that she actually crossed out and changed, and her father in a letter that seems to have been sent, mention to the Duke of Northumberland that Grace is constantly finding examples of marriages that have failed (and inconsequence hasn’t given marriage much thought).

It’s pure speculation, but maybe this is one of those bad marriages?!

As a side note, because I can’t remember where I picked this up and there is a very slight chance it was not from a letter as I recall, but from a fiction of which there are several….   But I’ve heard Cathrine senior referred to as Kitty Marsden in at least one place. I’m pretty sure there’s also some passing reference to the Marsden family as hosts to one of the artists or writers that visited the Darlings, but again I need to find this to reference it.

The sad coda is their gravestone St Aiden’s Church in Bamburgh; it commemorates the family of Joseph and Catherine (in the order they died, not the order listed here):

Isabella, d. 30/3/37 aged 10;
Cecilia, d. 14/8/36 aged 23;
Sarah Buck (married name), d 15/12/43 in Carrickfergus, aged 32
Henry Slaugher Buck (her son), d 17/8/36 aged 16 mo.
Catherine (senior), d.13/10/41 aged 59;
Catherine 10/4/44, aged 44
and finally, Joseph Marsden, who buried his wife, four daughters and a grandson, and who died on 28/8/54 aged 77.

-

Note: the tombstone spells it ‘Catherine’; the census ‘Cathrine’; I’ve varied the two depending on what I was talking about!

One further note on names: the one Marsden daughter who lived, was christened Elizabeth Darling Marsden; born in Derbyshire in 1809 and living until October 1888 (from Ancestry family trees). The first on the tombstone, Isabella, has the middle name Brooks. This was another relative to the Darling family,

Robert Darling, Grace’s Grandfather, married Elizabeth Clark, and her sister Isabel Clark married the ‘original’ William Brooks, a successful local man of note (the biog. & marriage is from Richard Armstrong’s book, the name Isabel from a single mention of that spousal name without any source, on Ancestry). He’s uncle to Grace’s father (by marriage); and his wife is therefore Isabel Brooks (if the name is accurate).

Grace’s father had sisters named Elizabeth and Isabella – William & Isabella Brooks would be their uncle and aunt. Grace’s younger twin brother was christened William Brooks Darling, (and known as Brooks, as opposed to the eldest sibling William, son of William). That name runs down the later Darling line.

The connections of the names suggest (but don’t prove) that the Darling connection is no further back than Grace’s grandfather (Robert’s) generation: even so, with the marriage details you’ve sourced, and the identical dates on various Darling trees for a similar named person, I’d be pretty confident that Kitty Marsden is Catherine Darling, Grace’s aunt.

This is quite useful for the Darling tree, though it has the mysterious ‘Christian’ Darling, who surely must be Catherine Marsden:

 http://freespace.virgin.net/john.elkin/darling001.htm#grace

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Key books on Grace Darling:

Grace Darling, her true story – ed Daniel Atkinson & Thomasin Darling c 1880
Grace Darling and Her Times – Constance Smedley, 1932
Grace Darling, Maid & Myth – Richard Armstrong, 1965
Grace Darling: Victorian Heroine – Hugh Cunningham, 2007



Offline Joe Catcheside

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Re: Life of a village postman - Bamburgh 1813-1854
« Reply #17 on: Monday 15 June 15 10:04 BST (UK) »
Here's the Marsden house on Front Street in 1895

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAzN1gxNjAw/z/r3QAAOSwgkRVUjvE/$_58.JPG