Author Topic: Seeking Family of Mary Ann Fisher, born Oct. 1895, Basford  (Read 74455 times)

Offline Ruskie

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Re: Seeking Family of Mary Ann Fisher, born Oct. 1895, Basford
« Reply #63 on: Monday 20 May 13 04:05 BST (UK) »
I just went back to the Timeline ...  all we 'know' of Harriet Fisher's family is that her father was 'George'; all we know of James Hall's family is that his father is 'William'.  Everything else that has followed is speculation, right?  Hopefully there will be some solid information that will help sort out their family info.

You are correct. We only know the fathers of Harriet Fisher and James Hall. All other possible connections are just speculation. The certificates, we hope, will help in giving occupations plus other information so we can hunt for the families in earlier censuses.

It is possible further along that you may find that other Hall and Fisher families in Ilkeston may connect to 'your' line, but that is something for later.

After this search is completed (as far as it can ever be), keep in touch and let us know how you get on if you decide to take your extended holiday.  ;D

PS. Good luck with the house sale.

Offline cocksie

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Re: Seeking Family of Mary Ann Fisher, born Oct. 1895, Basford
« Reply #64 on: Monday 20 May 13 07:09 BST (UK) »
I second Ruskie's comments.
You need the certs .... I've lost track which ones you are waiting on but am assuming hall/fisher marriage and Mary Ann fisher birth are ones you have ordered?

The tree with a Mary Jane fisher marrying the 2 hall brothers has no sources and the further one looked the more weird it got .....

I did more trawling through newspapers looking for other James Hall mentions (looking for terms and locations that related) and found a few possibilities from years 1895 through to 1910 in the area. Seems a certain James hall (tramp and/or labourer) was a regular in Loughborough courts with one later report stating the man had been in trouble 30 times.  Not long after a James hall was back in court and it seems he only had one leg.  I can't be sure this guy is/was Harriet's husband.  I'll type it all up and get it to you to add to your "possible information" pile.

All the best
Cocksie
Hallidays of Northowram, Roberts of Hovingham, Stampers of Kirkdale, Cocks of Mary Tavy Devon, Cocks of Redruth Cornwall, Manser of Sussex, Axel of East Sussex, Palmer of East Sussex, Hermitage of Sussex, Smale of Kent, Haddon of Devon, Cuthill of Kinross-shire, Lynn of Ireland, Seymour of Cork

Offline Ruskie

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Re: Seeking Family of Mary Ann Fisher, born Oct. 1895, Basford
« Reply #65 on: Monday 20 May 13 07:15 BST (UK) »
Some interesting finds in the newspapers Cocksie.  :) Intriguing.

Offline cocksie

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Re: Seeking Family of Mary Ann Fisher, born Oct. 1895, Basford
« Reply #66 on: Monday 20 May 13 09:22 BST (UK) »
Searching for James Hall's movements 1895-1910 British newspaper archives.
I figured that he was unlikely to have Esq after his name, or be a Rev, or a man of medecine, or have anything to do with any St James Hall concerts and events

Possibilities :

The Nottingham Evening Post, Wednesday March 18, 1914
PUBLIC HOUSE ROBBED
MONTH FOR A LOUGHBOROUGH LABOURER
James Hall, labourer, of Dead-lane, Loughborough, was charged a the local court to-day with stealing three pewter measures and a zinc tray and strainer, value 20s, the property of Messrs. Sidney Wells and Sons, brewers of Kegworth, on the 17th instant.
Arthur Wallis, traveller to the prosecutors, spoke to missing the articles from the Old Three Tuns public-house, which was recently clsoed.  The back door was found open.
P.C. Wyles, hearing that a man had been in the house, set off on his cycle in the direction of Loughborough.  Near the L.N.W. Station at Loughborough he overtook the prisoner, who was pushing a truck.  Underneath a sack he found the missing articles, and on being questions he replied that he got them from a heap of rubish at the back of the Old Three Tuns.
Prisoner said he found some old bottles in the yard, and on looking through the open windows he saw the articles (produced), and thinking they were not wanted, he naturally took them.
There were over 30 previous convictions against Hall, and he was sent to prison for 28 days.

THE DERBY DAILY TELEGRAPH, Friday July 8 1904
TODAY'S POLICE NEWS
DERBY COUNTY HALL
Friday - Before Mr R Waite (in the chair), Mr. M. J. Astle, Mr. J. Borough, Mr. E. S. Milnes, and Mr. G. W. Peach .......
CYCLISTS IN TROUBLE
James Hall, a labourer, of Quarndon, was summoned for riding a bicycle without a lighted lamp attached at 10.35pm at Markeaton on June 23. - Police-constable Bilson spoke to finding the defendant without a lighted lamp on his bicycle and stopped him.  Defendant at first complained that his lamp had been stolen, but afterwards admitted that it was a lie, and attmpeted to bribe witness not to report him. - A find of 5s. and costs was imposed.


The Leicester Chronicle and Leicestershire Mercury, Saturday April 21, 1900
Loughborough Petty Sessions
THEFT FROM AN EMPTY HOUSE - James Hall, Labourer, Bridge-street, was charged with stealing an iron pothook, window blind, and part of a fireplace, value 4s., the property of John Briley, retired butcher, on April 10th. - The evidence was that the articles named in the charge were taken from an empty house belonging to the prosecutor in Victoria-street. - Sergeant Holland arrested the prisoner, who was fined 20s., or seven days.

The Derby Daily Telegraph, Tuesday March 16, 1897
TODAY'S POLICE NEWS
DERBY BOROUGH COURT
Tuesday.-Before the Mayor (Ald. Sir Thomas Roe), Dr. W. Legge, and Mr R. Jefferson
DRUNKENNESS .........
James Hall was charged with a like offence in Iron-gate on Monday night.-Police-constable Culley said the prisoner was very drunk and using most abusive language.  When taking him to the lock-up he used the most disgusting talk and threatened to "brain" the officer with his crutch. - Prisoner, who had only one leg, told the Bench it was no good him saying anything.- Fined 5s, and costs, or seven days with hard labour ....
(my note:  actually probably not the James Hall I am looking for, particularly if he was "pushing a truck" in 1914)

There are a number of mentions of a James Hall, tramp, vagabond, coming under the heading of the Reading Borough Police Court ........ I think he is probably a different chap but .....

And another James Hall (with a wife Mary Hall) up on charges of child cruelty in Staffordshire area in 1903 (Hanley)- unlikely to be our Hall?

And yet another James Hall at the Salford Borough Police Court in 1900 up on charges with neglecting and abandoning 3 children, living in Pendleton, addicted to drink .... (unlikely as well methinks)
Hallidays of Northowram, Roberts of Hovingham, Stampers of Kirkdale, Cocks of Mary Tavy Devon, Cocks of Redruth Cornwall, Manser of Sussex, Axel of East Sussex, Palmer of East Sussex, Hermitage of Sussex, Smale of Kent, Haddon of Devon, Cuthill of Kinross-shire, Lynn of Ireland, Seymour of Cork


Offline california dreamin

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Re: Seeking Family of Mary Ann Fisher, born Oct. 1895, Basford
« Reply #67 on: Monday 20 May 13 09:53 BST (UK) »
Hi Everyone

Carol, I really think you need to start checking out the prison registers.  I think this is what you really need to have someone look at:  http://tinyurl.com/kqbppot

Leicestershire Family History Society
Family History Societies have a wealth of experience and knowledge of useful records.  I think it is £15 for an oversees member to join for a year.  You may get some great assistance from members
http://lrfhs.org.uk/

They also have a surname interest  table which includes many people researching Fisher's and Hall's

I do agree the with Chatter(s) who said you should wait for the documents you have ordered.  I also agree with others in that you need to stop trying to fit your DNA name profiles up with possible people . I think you are going well off beam and ‘potty’ with Potters.   Personally, I would want to verify this Fisher /Hall connection first with proof!  I don't think that the birth cert will provide the name of the father - I'm sure that will be blank. But you should get the address where the mother was living at the time of Mary Ann's birth which should be quite helpful.

Leicestershire  Researchers
Although we all like to do our own research sometimes because of distance or lack of knowledge in a particular area we all need help!  I found this list online.  I would consider it at this stage.  Cost of a researcher vs. airfare/hotels/travel expenses.  I think it would be money will spent.

http://greatauntyalice.com/researchers/england/east-midlands/leicestershire-researchers/

PS - Love the newspaper articles Cocksie  :)  I'm sure there are other reports of Hall kicking about.  I wonder if he ever went by an alias?  :-X

Offline loobylooayr

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Re: Seeking Family of Mary Ann Fisher, born Oct. 1895, Basford
« Reply #68 on: Monday 20 May 13 10:37 BST (UK) »
Hi,
Loved the newspaper reports Cocksie. Although I agree they are probably not all the same James Hall ( the James Hall of 1904 was riding a bike).
Imagine giving your address as  Dead Lane  ;D I love that. Googling it I discovered it no longer exists but used to run off Bridge Street - which sort of ties in with the theft of 1900 in the same area. The workhouse/ model lodging house wasn't far away either.
Well we may never know...unless California Dreamin's suggestion of prison registers comes up trumps!
Looby  ;)

Offline janan

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Re: Seeking Family of Mary Ann Fisher, born Oct. 1895, Basford
« Reply #69 on: Monday 20 May 13 10:53 BST (UK) »
Hi Carol

I agree with advice to wait for the certificates before going any further (and I look forward to hearing what they may throw up). However that said there is never any harm in burrowing around and collecting information which may prove useful in future!

Good luck with your house sale

Jan ;)
ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge

Offline cocksie

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Re: Seeking Family of Mary Ann Fisher, born Oct. 1895, Basford
« Reply #70 on: Monday 20 May 13 11:16 BST (UK) »
Carol
I see back in 2008 (on another forum) there were posts about the existence of vaccination records from 1862 for the county. At the time you were trying to find Mary Ann Williams. Did you follow this up? Just wondering if this is worth revisiting with the name Mary Ann Fisher
Cocksie
Hallidays of Northowram, Roberts of Hovingham, Stampers of Kirkdale, Cocks of Mary Tavy Devon, Cocks of Redruth Cornwall, Manser of Sussex, Axel of East Sussex, Palmer of East Sussex, Hermitage of Sussex, Smale of Kent, Haddon of Devon, Cuthill of Kinross-shire, Lynn of Ireland, Seymour of Cork

Offline Stainforth

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Re: Seeking Family of Mary Ann Fisher, born Oct. 1895, Basford
« Reply #71 on: Monday 20 May 13 11:23 BST (UK) »
Hi Carol

I came across your thread when searching for the Basford Workhouse and it has touched the very core of me. The kindness of the people on here is overwhelming.

In my search for info surrounding the Basford Workhouse I came across an old thread with a list of births from the Workhouse, the time period is march 8th 1878 to sept 9th 1903. There is a Mary Ann Fisher listed. There are however, 7 births of Mary Ann Fisher recorded in the time frame on FreeBMD.

I wish you all the luck in the world

Stainy
Stainforth - Sheffield, Hucknall Torkard, Chesterfield
Wilkinson - Sheffield, Wolverhampton
Northall - Sheffield, Tipton
Harding - Rotherham, Atherstone, Lidgley, Mancetter
Hutchinson - Rotherham, Greasborough
Atherley - Atherstone
Rogers - Tipton
Allen - Hucknall Torkard
Burton - Hucknall Torkard
Lee - Sheffield
Stacey - Sheffield
Hibberd - Sheffield