Seeking Family of Mary Ann Fisher, born Oct. 1895, Basford

[heywood]

I'll pass on the Crooks ...  we know that they aren't mine    
I have a birthdate for James Hall of 1876 and I think it goes like this:  his father is William, born 1854 and that William's father is another William (married to Ann Froggatt).  I don't have any locations noted.  Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. 

I just want it to be right. His father is William from the marriage and  James was born abt 1876.
I can't see how William's father can be identified from that small detail.
Where does the Froggatt/Hall come from?

[loobylooayr]

You'll get there in the end Carol - I'm sure of it.
Meanwhile I wish you luck and will read on with interest to find out the info from the certs you've ordered.
Forget about Crooks and Potters !

Best wishes and good night,
Looby

[heywood]

I found the Froggatt/Hall marriage and remembered that it is part of the Hall/Fisher family tree, is that right?
There is no son James though.

[CarolRR]

heywood, all I can tell you is that's what I have written in my notes.  Hmmm.  I think the Froggatt info surfaced in the first thread.  I'll go back and take a look.
Good night Looby, thanks again for your help.  Rest well.

[CarolRR]

Heywood, I think that's right - if it's the right family, James arrived later - I seem to recall someone mentioned that there were 11 or 12 children, but I've lost track of who said what where.
Thank for your help!

[heywood]

Carol,
there is so much info !

I think the story is that there was a Mary Jane Fisher who married two of the Hall brothers. She was  the daughter of Isaac Fisher. There are several children in that Hall family, but there is no brother James.

Heywood 

[Ruskie]

This might help explain where the Fisher/Hall brothers/Froggatt comes in (I think I added this to the end of the timeline, but will just repost the relevant bit here). I think the first part is from an Ancestry tree which has no sources given, but the last part is from lookups by a rootschatter/s (apologies I cannot recall who  ):

A family tree on Ancestry has:
Mary J Fisher - parents George and Harriett - born in Ilkeston, Derbyshire 1862
sister Harriett born 1874 (no sources given)

Mary J married brothers -
Samual Hall 1858 to 1891 and
Arthur Hall born 1869 Riddings, Derbyshire. Samual and Arthur's father is William, mother is Ann Froggatt.

The father William, was a labourer in an iron works on 1871 census.  Can this tie in with his occupation given on James Hall and Harriet Fisher married in 1895, his father is William. What is his occupation? James Hall also claimed at his trial that when he marriet Mary Ann's mother he worked at the Stanton Ironworks Company.

In 1881 William is still working as an Ironworks labourer as are his sons.  There is no sign of a James Hall with his family. William was born in Leicester, the family lived in Derby. All these places tie in with where James Hall is said to have been tramping.

I think it could be useful to contact any small local family history groups and newspapers in the area once you receive the certificates. You might find something on the families at local level. They may have some archived material (which may not be online - I see the Ilkeston Local History Society link seems to focus on the prominent people) which may give you more clues (not necessarily even about the case, but about the families in general). It may be a good excuse for you to take a holiday there Carol.  Alternatively there may be rootschatters who live locally who would be willing to chase this up for you if you wish.

But first, the certificates. 

[PS. I can't rmember who asked, but Belper was mentioned in relation to Ann Froggatt - the place was swarming with Froggatts - I have some in my tree  }

[heywood]

But that is a different Fisher family.
Harriet had an older sister but not Mary Jane. Another tree has MJ with a father Isaac, which is supported by census info.
That Hall/Froggatt family have connections with Belper but as far as I can see nothing to do with this James Hall.

[CarolRR]

I just went back to the Timeline ...  all we 'know' of Harriet Fisher's family is that her father was 'George'; all we know of James Hall's family is that his father is 'William'.  Everything else that has followed is speculation, right?  Hopefully there will be some solid information that will help sort out their family info.  I hope to hear back from the Archives people before long or I'll have to get after them.
I have some very dear friends who live near Hampton Court in London who have been urging me to get my rear end over for a visit - I am just getting ready to list my house for sale and once it's sold, I think I'll go on a holiday (maybe an extended one!).  I do have an EU/UK Passport. 
I read that the Iron Company where the Halls were employed has changed name over the years and part of the name became "Staveley".  I got goosebumps when I read that.  To me, this is an uncommon name, I had only heard it once before in my life ...   it was the name of my street when I lived in Montreal as a teenager.  I know it's just a coincidence, but how bizarre.