Author Topic: Grandmother stolen at 2 years of age (1897). Help?  (Read 38967 times)

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Grandmother stolen at 2 years of age (1897). Help?
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 14 May 13 23:22 BST (UK) »
A terribly sad story but it would be nice if you could finally find the answers to at least some of the questions.

Wonder if newspaper reports might give more clues (this sort of story could have ben copied to other papers at the time)- do you have a date when she was found or for the court case?

New thread-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,647367.msg4940198.html#msg4940198
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline ..claire..

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Re: Grandmother stolen at 2 years of age (1897). Help?
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 14 May 13 23:26 BST (UK) »
What a dreadful story

SHOCKING CRUELTY TO A CHILD AT LOUGHBOROUGH .
Nottinghamshire Guardian (London, England), Saturday, January 15, 1898

At the petty sessions, ~ James Hall described as a labourer was charged with cruelty to the child on November 13th and 14th. Mr Deane jun. prosecuted on behalf of the NSPCC and stated the case was one of gross cruelty. The prisoner had been in the habit of tramping in this part of the country, having with him a child of about two years old. He  had not always the same woman with him, and the one he was living with now was not the mother of the child. Evidence showed that the prisoner kicked the child, pushed it against a stone sink, causing a wound on the little ones forehead. He frequently put it in a small cupboard and had hung it up to the ceiling by a strap.
  Prisoner, asked what he had to offer in his defence said the child was his own and was two years old October last. He married the mother at Ilkeston Old Church , when the child was a few months old. He was then working at the Stanton Ironworks Company. The child had always something to eat and a place to sleep in. At November Fair at Loughborough his wife was hopping about the town with another man, so he thought it was about time he got rid of her and he went off with someone else.
He was sentenced to ten weeks hard labour

claire

Luce, Tippett , Thomson, Dolling ~ Devon & Cornwall
Mocquard ~ London, France
Census info is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline giblet

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Re: Grandmother stolen at 2 years of age (1897). Help?
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 14 May 13 23:29 BST (UK) »
Oh my god the poor little thing was his own child  :'(

Good fine Claire.

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Grandmother stolen at 2 years of age (1897). Help?
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 14 May 13 23:32 BST (UK) »
Oh my god the poor little thing was his own child  :'(

Good fine Claire.

Well, that's what he said but could easily been lying to get off... or get a lighter sentence.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!


Offline sami

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Re: Grandmother stolen at 2 years of age (1897). Help?
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 14 May 13 23:35 BST (UK) »
If he can be believed, his description would suggest a birthdate of October, 1895 and a marriage in 1896.
England:  Archer, Bailey, Bates, Blower, Bosworth, Court, Hicklin, Orton, Palmer, Robbins, Sedgwick, Smith, Stevenson, Stone, Varnam, Wakelin, Walker
Canada:  Archer, Walker, Spencer, Shepherd
Australia:  Taplin
South Africa:  Risley

Online Erato

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Re: Grandmother stolen at 2 years of age (1897). Help?
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 14 May 13 23:35 BST (UK) »
Oh my god the poor little thing was his own child  :'(

Good fine Claire.


Not necessarily.....

"He married the mother at Ilkeston Old Church , when the child was a few months old."
Wiltshire:  Banks, Taylor
Somerset:  Duddridge, Richards, Barnard, Pillinger
Gloucestershire:  Barnard, Marsh, Crossman
Bristol:  Banks, Duddridge, Barnard
Down:  Ennis, McGee
Wicklow:  Chapman, Pepper
Wigtownshire:  Logan, Conning
Wisconsin:  Ennis, Chapman, Logan, Ware
Maine:  Ware, Mitchell, Tarr, Davis

Offline CarolRR

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Re: Grandmother stolen at 2 years of age (1897). Help?
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 14 May 13 23:36 BST (UK) »
Fire away, please feel free to ask whatever you like.
Barnardo's document reads:

"This 'unknown child' came to us on the application of Miss Bolton, Sec. of the NSPCC, Harper Street, Bloomsbury:  our knowledge of the following facts being gathered from the papers forwarded to us by the Society: -
Mary Ann (who is but two years old) was in the custody of a professional tramp and beggar named James Hall -- who is stated to be in no way related to the child, but used it for begging purposes. 
William Gresley, manager, and Martha Hayward, female deputy, of a model Lodging at Loughboro', stated (when the case came into Court) that Hall, in company with a woman, was in the habit of stopping at their house during the last six months.  On each occasion the man 'more or less' ill-treated the child whom - the woman informed them - 'they had picked up". 
Hall tramped the country between Derby, Leicester and Northampton.  A warrant was issued for his apprehension but he managed to abscond, and for a considerable time eluded the police.  On 12th January last the case against him was heard at Loughboro' Petty Sessions and he was sentenced to ten week's hard labour.  The NSPCC were granted the legal custody of the child, no trace of whose parent or parents could be discovered."

This document is dated as:  Admitted -- 1st March, 1898 (Age - 2 1/2 years)
Also, I don't know what the implication of this is, but the document also states: "Name given as protegee to H. Myers, Esq. The Long House, Leatherhead, Surrey" - then a note added on "7.6.05 Mr. Myers wrote acknowledging child's photo".
There are examples of his cruelty in the document - these abuses are noted as being 'in November'.
That's basically all I have ...  other than physical description:
Colour of Hair - Light  (as an adult, she had very dark brown hair, curly)
Colour of Eyes - brown
Height - 2 ft. 7 1/2 in.
Complexion - Fair
Vacc Marks - 2 l.a.
Weight - 21 lbs.
Condition of Body - Very thin.
Remarks by Medical Officer - Very small child.

That's it.

Again, many thanks!

Offline CarolRR

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Re: Grandmother stolen at 2 years of age (1897). Help?
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 14 May 13 23:41 BST (UK) »
OH MY GOD.  The example of his cruelty are the same stories contained in the Barnardo's file.  I am going to be sick.
Is the mother's name listed in the marriage information? 
Please God, don't let this man be her father ...
Then again, if he was her biological father, she went on to have really good life - a full education, a happy, successful marriage, etc.
Sorry, I'm venting.
Now I have to find out which of his stories is the right one ...
I owe you so much!!!  I can't begin to thank you!!!

Offline Finley 1

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Re: Grandmother stolen at 2 years of age (1897). Help?
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 14 May 13 23:58 BST (UK) »
All I can see so far, is an extremely nasty little man.  I for one do NOT think he is the biological father. (however we will probably never know)  If he is Carol, do not let this upset you too much. As you say, she became a wonderful person and that makes up for what he did to her.

In those days people sold children or left them to starve, or even died and the child was alone. 
(not much different really!!! sorry to say) 

The areas you mention him 'tramping' are the areas to search for a missing child.   You may just be lucky and come across something.. the Newspaper Archives are a good starting place.  They are on line and can be accessed by pay as you go.

xin