Samuel Smith and his wife Rachel Brown married 1817 or 1819? LONG SHOT

[jensav]

Hi, I'm trying to find out some information on the above couple.

I have found 2 marriage Banns records, 1 dated 21 Sep 1817 and the second 28 Jun 1819.. both are from the Kirkby Overblow (Yorkshire) parish records and refer to Samuel who was from the parish of Bradford and Rachel Brown "from this parish".

I know Rachel's father is called James Brown as I have found a second marriage from later in her life to a Samuel Hardaker and its an actual certificate that lists her as from Yeadon/Guiseley and shows her fathers name as opposed to just the banns that only lists the couples names.  I also have her on a census record from 1841 which has her listed as aged 50 so birth date is 1791 approx. although I cant find her birth records and I don't have much else up until she marries her second husband.

I have also found 3 children from Rachel and Samuel Smith (Mary, Richard & John - who I am also searching for, he is my 3rd Great Grandfather) I cannot find a birth/baptism record for John who was born in Poole (or Otley depending which census you read) in 1818 (according to the 1841 census) which puts his birth between the 2 sets of marriage banns I have found.. a clue possibly!! lol. I do already have baptism records for his siblings Richard and Mary who were baptised in St Peters, Bradford Cathedral and I can find John on most census forms in the Gt Horton or Sticker Lane area of Bradford..but have no birth records for him which I would like as they may be helpful.

I cannot find any other information for Samuel all I know is he was a woolcomber from Bradford and I cannot find any further census details for Rachel although as I said, I know she remarried in 1871 and states on the certificate she is from Yeadon/Guiseley (not Kirkby Overblow) and died shortly after in 1873, I found the probate records but I have no trace of her on the census records in between 1841 and her second marriage in 1871

I've been banging my head over this for months now.. does anyone think they can help? researching Smith is SO hard but then to throw a Brown in the mix too.. I'm getting nothing.

Thanks for reading, any help is very much appreciated.

[..claire..]

Hi

Are you looking at the records on Anc***ry ?

The 28th June 1819 is the day they married, after Banns. Both left their mark in register.
Witnesses: William and Ann Bailey and also a Ralph Snowball (who looks like a church official, witnessed quite a few records on that page)

claire

[suzard]

I have also found 3 children from Rachel and Samuel Smith (Mary, Richard & John - who I am also searching for, he is my 3rd Great Grandfather) I cannot find a birth/baptism record for John who was born in Poole (or Otley depending which census you read) in 1818 (according to the 1841 ce
, I know she remarried in 1871 and states on the certificate she is from Yeadon/Guiseley (not Kirkby Overblow) and died shortly after in 1873, I found the probate records but I have no trace of her on the census records in between 1841 and her second marriage in 1871
.

FreeBMD has death reg - for (presumably) Rachel hardaker's death - as seen in probate record

Death Reg
Rachel Hardaker
age 56
Jun qtr 1873
Wharfedale
9a 117

this would give her a y.o.b. of c.1817

?

What age is she on the marriage cert and who were witnesses?

Suz

[..claire..]

Hi

Just spotted that myself, marriage just gives "of full age"

claire

[..claire..]

Witnesses

William Croft Forrest and and Ellen Forrest.

claire

[suzard]

this looks like Samuel Hardaker who married Rachel??

1871
Little London Rowden Yorks
Samuel hardaker Head widower 60 Woollen Weaver Idle Yorks
RG10 4300 15 24

this looks like the Rachel he married
1871
Windmill Hill Rowdon
Rachel Smith head widow 54 Guisley Yorks
Joseph son U 22 Foreman Rawdon
John Son U 19 Woollen weaver Rowden (as mentioned on probate records)
RG10 4307 45 168

Possibly it wasn't "your" Rachel who married Samuel Hardaker??

Suz

[jensav]

this looks like Samuel Hardaker who married Rachel??

1871
Little London Rowden Yorks
Samuel hardaker Head widower 60 Woollen Weaver Idle Yorks
RG10 4300 15 24

this looks like the Rachel he married
1871
Windmill Hill Rowdon
Rachel Smith head widow 54 Guisley Yorks
Joseph son U 22 Foreman Rawdon
John Son U 19 Woollen weaver Rowden (as mentioned on probate records)
RG10 4307 45 168

Possibly it wasn't "your" Rachel who married Samuel Hardaker??

Suz

well that might make sense although the probate record I read on Anc***ry  didnt give her age at death but did list John Smith as next of kin.. so was thinking that it was a possibility.

Searching "Smith" is a total nightmare isnt it? lol

[suzard]

Witnesses

William Croft Forrest and and Ellen Forrest.

claire

This looks like the witnesses
1881
Dial Cottage rawdon Yks
William C Forest head m 36 Woollen manufacturer employing 88 men 81 women 37 boys 8 girls Rawdon Yks
Ellen wife 35 Rawdon
Walter son 11 Yeasdon
plus a servant
RG11 4334 17 29

there is a marriage reg freeBMD
Sept qtr 1865 Otley -on same page William Croft Forest Ellen Smith

so was Ellen a relative of Rachel???

Suz

[jensav]

if she was only 56 at death, then I cant see it being "my" Rachel.. her son was born in 1818, I have mine as birth approx 1791.


So.. scrapping the Hardaker stuff.. I am now looking for Rachel Brown of Kirkby Overblow.. who married Samuel Smith a woolcomber from Bradford in 1819 in the parish of Kirkby Overblow.

and John Smith their son who was born in pool/otley, Yorkshire.

Thank you so much for your help so far.. I think you can get so bogged down in the search sometimes that a fresh pair of eyes can be invaluable,  if I can be of any help to your own searches just ask.