parish records - rhosymedre and acrefair

[soozieg]

Hi,
I am still on the hunt for the birth of my gt gt grandfather William Kerfoot. He was born illegitimate and from census returns and death certificate he was born somewhere between 1854 and 1858.
The information I have is as follows:
He was born illegitimate to Robert Kerfoot and unknown mother (probably / possibly an Alice Jones who later became Roberts wife) this is evidenced through his grandfathers will.
1861 census - no information - possibly missing or should I be looking for someone with a different surname???
1871 census recorded as Kerfoot - living with grandparents on family farm in St Asaph - born in Llangollen recorded age as 13 therefore born approx 1858.
1879 - marriage in Blaenau Ffestiniog aged 22 - this would mean he was born 1857
1881 census recorded as Kerfoot - living with wife aged 24 born in Denbighshire - this would put him born in 1857.
1891 census - recorded as Kerfoot - living with wife aged 37 born in Denbigh - this would put him born in 1854.
1901 census - recorded as Kerfoot - living with wife aged 45 born in Acrefair - this would put him born in 1856.
1911 census - recorded as Kerfoot - living with wife aged 54 born in Rhosymedre - this would put him born in 1857.
Death certificate has him aged 57 in 1912 therefore born in 1855.

I cannot find a birth of a William KERFOOT in that year range anywhere in North Wales. There is one William Kerfoot born in 1853 St Asaph and I have the birth certificate and it is not him.

I need to access parish records - as I am no where near the area this is not possible in records offices. Hopefully by going through these I can find him - perhaps marked as illegitimate in the records with his mother.
I need to know a few things and am hoping someone can help me...
If someone was born in Llangollen / Acrefair / Rhosymedre where would they have registered the birth - Oswestry or Wrexham?
Are any records from this area only so that I can view page by page (painstaking task but no alternative left I think!
Can I order these records online from a welsh family history society and if so which FHS would cover all these areas or do they come under different ones?

Any advice on other ways I could proceed would be really helpful.

Thankyou Soozieg

[Gadget]

Hi

Just a quick answer to this:

If someone was born in Llangollen / Acrefair / Rhosymedre where would they have registered the birth - Oswestry or Wrexham?

Llangollen would be Corwen and Acrefair/Rhosymedre would be Wrexham.

I have most of the parish records for this area - either records or transcripts and will get them out and look for you.


Gadget

[Gadget]

Hi again

Can you give me more info on Robert Kerfoot and Alice - e.g. when did they marry, do you have them in censuses, etc.

Gadget

[soozieg]

Hi,
Thank you for replying... I do not have a marriage for them - have searched FindMyPast / ancestry and family search and cannot find a record of a robert kerfoot marrying around that time - perhaps they never did.

I have Robert born 1819 and baptised 1824 both in St Asaph area.
1841 living with his parents aged 22 at Marli Farm in St Asaph area.
1851 living with his parents aged 32 at Marli Farm in St Asaph area.
1861 cant find him at all - anywhere - census exists for Marli Farm, and Pentre Meredith (where he is in 71) is empty according to ennumerator.
1871 living at Pentre Meredith - St Asaph with SPOUSE Alice Kerfoot with children Ellen, James (both cited in his fathers will as also illegitimate) and Thomas and John Edward. William at this stage is now in Blaenau Festiniog which is where my family remained until about 1930ish.
I have taken over this research from my mum and am using her notes - which were on the whole very meticulous - she has passed away now so I cannot ask her where she got that evidence from! She has Alice's surname as Jones, but I have just realised that I cannot find out why she says it is Jones there is no evidence. Robert died in 1872 and the next time I find her is in 1881 in the workhouse - the family were wealthy so why did she end up in the workhouse with her two youngest children.

I think looking through the parish records for those areas I will need to look at every William in the time period who was possibly illegitimate with a mother Alice - and even then it is possible that Alice was not his mother and Kerfoot was definately not what he was registered as - perhaps he was never registered? So my only other alternative is to start buying certificates 

Any suggestions would be so helpful...

[Kay99]

Could the best way forward be to at least check Alice's maiden name by buying one of the later children's birth certs who was actually registered as Kerfoot such as John Edward. It is possble the older children were just registered under Alice's maiden name.

Kay

[Gadget]

She has Alice's surname as Jones, but I have just realised that I cannot find out why she says it is Jones there is no evidence.

I see that there are a lot of online trees which have this union but no information about a marriage. 

The 'Names from Clwyd' site seems to have no mention of Kerfoot, which I find strange. I'm assuming that any children where registered/baptised with their mother's mn. It's very tricky 

I see that Granddad was b. Lancashire.


Gadget

[Kay99]

Looking at the baptisms of Thomas Kerfoot on FamilySearch and FindMyPast on 17th Feb 1867 there would appear to be an acknowledgement that the couple were not married. 

Kerfoot is given in the surname column after Robert, but after Alice there is a line and question mark in the surname column.

Kay

[despair]

Maybe something or someone from this previous thread can help:-

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,69237.0.html

Regards
Roger

[Gadget]

Looking for Ellen, b. Cefn Bychan. She might be the clue - nothing so far