Author Topic: Islandeady, Claremorris, Crossboyne - early 19th Century  (Read 6090 times)

Offline DudleyWinchurch

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Islandeady, Claremorris, Crossboyne - early 19th Century
« on: Monday 15 April 13 12:11 BST (UK) »
I was wondering if anyone with local knowledge could tell me roughly how big these village/towns/regions would have been between around 1810 and 1840?

The name I'm looking for is O'Malley so unless I can pinpoint precise locations, I suspect that I'm not going to get anywhere fast.

A quick search of (RC) baptism/marriage records has produced nothing, so I wondered if these place names would encompass other parishes?
McDonough, Oliver, McLoughlin, O'Brien, Cuthbert, Keegan, Quirk(e), O'Malley, McGuirk (Ireland)
Dudley, Winchurch, Wolverson, Brookes (Black Country)
Concannon, Moore, Markowski (Markesky), Mottram, Lawton (Black Country)

Offline shanew147

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Re: Islandeady, Claremorris, Crossboyne - early 19th Century
« Reply #1 on: Monday 15 April 13 13:26 BST (UK) »
I assume you mean how big in acres ?

It depends on which entities of land division you are dealing with - Islandeady is both a townland and civil parish.The townland consists of just 20 acres, and the civil parish contains just over 60 townlands, and consists of about 23,219 acres in total.  (corrected 15th Apr 20:23)

Similar situation with Crossbyne which is a townland and civil parish.

Claremorris is a town, townland (sometimes these are listed as 'Clare') and Poor Law Union and slightly different scenario as the civil parish is named Kilcoleman, but the RC parish is sometimes listed as Claremorris..

sorry to complicate things!

so worst case scenario you could be talking about 2 civil parishes and an RC parish

RC baptism records for Kilcoleman/Claremorris go back to about 1835, marriage to abt 1806 - with gaps. Baptism and marriage records for Islandeady RC go back to 1839. Data on dates of available records for Crossboyne/Tagheen RC parish are conflicting...one source states baptisms from 1862, another baptisms from 1825... will try to check that.
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Offline DudleyWinchurch

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Re: Islandeady, Claremorris, Crossboyne - early 19th Century
« Reply #2 on: Monday 15 April 13 16:40 BST (UK) »
Hi Shane, thanks again.

I think I was thinking in terms of number of people, or number of parishes which might fall within those labels, but your reply based on acreage helps a lot.  The problem is that I don't know what level of land division is involved.  I just have some place names.  I know that O'Malley is a Mayo name and I expected too much information rather than the dearth that I have found.

I hadn't come across Kilcoleman and Tagheen before, so more parishes to look for next time I get to NLI.

I think the question is really, if someone says they are a catholic from Islandeady, say, then if they were not baptised at that parish, where would they have been?

I'm trying to connect a big family who were born in a number of different places, from what I know I think that the early ones were born in Mayo and later in Dublin.  Apart from one child that I can't prove was the same family but had the same parents' names, born in Dublin but did not survive very long, I can't find any of them.  And, if the father was in the military or similar occupation before he became a policeman then it could all be much more complicated than that.

These are definitely a catholic family and I started with the one from Islandeady, as he is the most consistent as to where he came from, also has the most consistent reports of date of birth (within a couple of years) across all other records for him and I knew the names of his parents, but he's not in the Islandeady RC baptisms.

Interesting as to Claremorris being called "Clare", as another one I am having lots of difficulty with, as to whether he belongs to this family or not has "connections to Mayo and Clare" marked on his police service record and I couldn't find any connection to Co. Clare so that was beginning to look like negative evidence.  There are other issues that complicate that one but a lot of circumstantial evidence that he is connected.

Another issue that has come up in my research into families from Mayo is the number of parishes that have marriage registers but no baptisms or huge gaps in the baptism records.  A genealogist at the NLI suggested that perhaps the priests took the baptism registers with them rather than leaving them with the church.  Does that mean that they are now gone for ever? or is it possible that they are still in one of the parishes or some depositary out in Mayo?

I'm hoping to go look for these places in a few weeks time, so trying to get as much information and build up a picture of the places, in preparation.
McDonough, Oliver, McLoughlin, O'Brien, Cuthbert, Keegan, Quirk(e), O'Malley, McGuirk (Ireland)
Dudley, Winchurch, Wolverson, Brookes (Black Country)
Concannon, Moore, Markowski (Markesky), Mottram, Lawton (Black Country)

Offline shanew147

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Re: Islandeady, Claremorris, Crossboyne - early 19th Century
« Reply #3 on: Monday 15 April 13 16:48 BST (UK) »
...
I think the question is really, if someone says they are a catholic from Islandeady, say, then if they were not baptised at that parish, where would they have been?
.....

Islandeady RC parish matched the civil parish (in the early 1800s up to 1837 at least) - so think that's the RC parish to search, but you are right on the limit of dates (1839), which I think is probably the issue here.

You can sometimes move on to adjacent parishes (providing their records go back further) if a record is not found, but in doing so you could be discarding an important clue, i.e. the location, and in this case with a common Mayo surname you are just as likely to pick up the 'wrong' O'Malley family if you do that.. particularly if 'your' O'Malley was actually from somewhere in Islandeady parish after all, but baptised in say 1836.. or his record was on a page now missing or damaged..

You might be able to establish population for these (civil) parishes from 1841 census stats, and very rough estimates for earlier dates based on household numbers in Tithe's for example.. (allow for exclusions in towns etc)
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Offline shanew147

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Re: Islandeady, Claremorris, Crossboyne - early 19th Century
« Reply #4 on: Monday 15 April 13 17:47 BST (UK) »
re the RC parishes for these locations

  RC parish of Claremorris/Kilcolman covered the civil parish of Kilcolman.
  RC parish of Islandeady covered the civil parish of Islandeady.
  RC parish of Crossboyne, sometimes as Crossboyne & Taugheen, covered the civil parishes of Crossboyne and Tagheen

The RC parish church for Islandeady appears to have been at Cloonan townland, close to the shores of Islandeady lough. On the 1st Edition OSI Map (c1837) a ruined church is shown closeby on the island in the lough - possibly the source of the parish names.

A good place to check RC vs Civil parishes as they were setup in the 1830s is Lewis 1837. There are entries for civil parishes and towns, and there is usually a detail about the relevant RC divisions towards the end of the entry .

forgot to mention earlier - the RC parishes of Claremorris/Kilcolman  and Crossboyn/Taugheen are adjacent and in south east Mayo, Islandeady parish is to the west, and between Castlebar and the coast.
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Offline DudleyWinchurch

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Re: Islandeady, Claremorris, Crossboyne - early 19th Century
« Reply #5 on: Monday 15 April 13 18:18 BST (UK) »
Thanks again for all the info and the reference.

From that I see that among the principal local seats in Islandeady, Cloonane was (in 1837) the residence of a J O'Malley Esq. 

I wonder if my John O'Malley, born around 1831, was related in someway or named for him.   ;D

His father, William, moved to Dublin some time between then and the early 1840s and joined the DMP in 1843.

[added: also now wondering if the H. J. H Browne at Rahens in the same area could possibly be the Col. Browne who recommended John and his brother Martin to the police forces]
McDonough, Oliver, McLoughlin, O'Brien, Cuthbert, Keegan, Quirk(e), O'Malley, McGuirk (Ireland)
Dudley, Winchurch, Wolverson, Brookes (Black Country)
Concannon, Moore, Markowski (Markesky), Mottram, Lawton (Black Country)

Offline shanew147

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Re: Islandeady, Claremorris, Crossboyne - early 19th Century
« Reply #6 on: Monday 15 April 13 18:21 BST (UK) »
..........
Data on dates of available records for Crossboyne/Tagheen RC parish are conflicting...one source states baptisms from 1862, another baptisms from 1825... will try to check that.

NLI Index confirm their film for Crossboyne & Taugheen covers back to 1862 b/1877 m, but Ryan's suggest that baptisms are available back to 1835, and some marriages back to 1791, John Grenham/Irish Times lists baptisms back to 1825, and marriages to 1791, as does the LDS film - maybe referring some records or partial registers still in local custody ?
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Offline shanew147

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Re: Islandeady, Claremorris, Crossboyne - early 19th Century
« Reply #7 on: Monday 15 April 13 18:25 BST (UK) »
...
His father, William, moved to Dublin some time between then and the early 1840s and joined the DMP in 1843.

[added: also now wondering if the H. J. H Browne at Rahens in the same area could possibly be the Col. Browne who recommended John and his brother Martin to the police forces]

DMP records give civil parish as place of birth, I would expect reasonably accurate in most cases.

the person referring was usually prominent in the area, so worth following that..

Sounds like your John was born too early for RC records in the area...
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Offline shanew147

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Re: Islandeady, Claremorris, Crossboyne - early 19th Century
« Reply #8 on: Monday 15 April 13 19:05 BST (UK) »
There are a number of Malley, O'Malley listings on the Tithes in Islandeady civil parish that might be worth trying trace forward - wouldn't give you direct evidence on your John, but might give a possible sighting of relatives if they held agricultural land in a Tithable area.

see : page 23, 24, 34 and 35

p.s. Raheens townland and  house are less than 5km to the east of the RC church.
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