Liverpool Brickwall

[TedDee]

trying to locate Henry Burns in 1861 /1871 with mother Mary father patrick and possibly a sister Frances Elizabeth. Whom i believe married a Edward Lang.
Any help with breaking this would be appreciated

[judi2632]

Hi Ted

We could use a little more info, where and when was Henry Burns born please? also Patrick and Mary if known.

Kind Regards Judi

[avm228]

Is this your Henry?

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NV77-KQ7

added - and his sister?

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NV73-778

[TedDee]

Yes those baptism records are correct, Henry and Frances appear to be separated from Parents.
As as of 1881 i have found marriage for Frances to Edward Lang but then nothing and Henry married Phoebe Gomm in Paddington London.
We know from 1881 what happened to Henry but what and where he was before 1881 is a complete mystery. I have tried all the orphanges and no information could be found. Henrys birth gives father Patricks occupation as shipwright. Also found original baptism in Catholic registration for both Henry and Frances.
Checked out 1861 census for Tenterden street the birth address for Henry but no Burns listed.The No 8 is a Alehouse and lodging house.

[avm228]

Have you seen this baptism, and do you know whether it's the same family?

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NT17-NBD

Added: possibly not the same family, as the Patrick Burns/Mary O'Neil marriage didn't take place until 1857.

Do you have (from their birth certificates) a mother's maiden name for Henry and/or Frances? That would enable you to trace their wider family and see whether they might be with them. For example, I see that in 1861 there's a Frances Burns (7 b Liverpool) enumerated as niece of a Sarah Daniels - she's still with her in 1871 too.

[TedDee]

Hi
No i have not seen that baptism, i have seen a baptism for a Thomas Burns whom lists the father as Patrick Henry and mother Mary but as in all three baps they do not give the mother maiden name.
On Henry,s birth cert the mother is down as maiden name "Woods".
Henry went on to have a son Stanley and put Woods as his middle name, so i believe this to be the Mary,s maiden name.
Thomas is also catholic Baptism and 27th of February 1865 in Parish Church St Peter

[despair]

The Sarah Daniels that Frances is with looks like being nee Woods,marrying Samuel Daniels in 1836(Lancs OPC).If Frances is a niece this should make Sarah and Mary sisters(?)

Regards
Roger

[despair]

It also looks like Henry is with Sarah,now Burns in 1871(after Samuel Daniel's death in 1861,West Derby?) at ref. 1871  3801  7  9

Regards
Roger

[TedDee]

Hello Roger,
I have the census copy with Frances but was itchy over this as i could not find find Henry.
Slowly the picture is developing,i would agree that Sarah and Mary would be sisters.
Thank you for finding the marriage details. Another jigsaw piece in place.
teddee