Forbes, Cromford.

[Skoosh]

My g,g,grandfather, John Forbes, a glassworker from Edinburgh, pops up in Brookwalls, a very small place near Cromford, about 1850 where he married a Staffs lassie and my g,grandfather Henry Frederick Forbes was born. They then moved to Stourbridge wher both were glassworkers.
Stourbridge was the place for glass, what would he doing in a place like Brookwalls?

Skoosh.

[spendlove]

Hi,

How interesting - no glass works to my knowledge in the area.

Think there are lots of questions:-

Cannot find a Birth Registration for Henry Thomas Forbes in Derbyshire.

When and where did John Forbes marry  Mary Ann,

Only connection I can see is that Mary Ann is described as a Tape Weaver, this occupation
has connections to  Wirksworth and Derby.

So do you have birth registration documents, for Alice, Henry T and John all born Derbyshire?

Spendlove

[Derbysderek]

Mary Ann wife of John Forbes..was born in Yoxall Staffordshire...but can't find a marriage..

Henry Forbes their son appears with other children on the Censuses.......

Henry F Forbes appears later married to a Mary Ann........1881 at dudley West M9dlands..

There is a John Forbes marriage in the Derby registration District to Mary Ann Dukes OND 1855..and in the lack of any obvious alternative, it might be worth considering even though they had children by then.....

Spendlove..we're looking for Henry FREDERICK Forbes...not Henry Thomas....but you're right..can't find his birth either!!
EDIT...HENRY FREDERICK FORBES married MARY ANN CORBETT Staffs OND 1874

Has anyone noticed that John Forbes was 46 when he married a 17 year old Staffs lassie in 1850???
Derek.

[spendlove]

Hi Derek,

Despite what I typed, I was looking for the right person - Honest!

Trying to suggest, that Alice, Henry F and John stated as being born in Derby were not the
children of John Forbes.

Found the Derby Marriage in 1855, like you, also in the 1851 Census:-

Mary Ann Dukes aged 22    Silk Winder   born Staffs Axhall (per transcription)
Alice Dukes                7 months
Are living as Lodgers, at Brook Walk, Derby.

So where is John Forbes, Born Scotland, in 1851?

Spendlove

[Derbysderek]

Hi Spendlove..bit of a curved ball that one!!!..............all i can say right now is compare the 1861 and 1871 Censuses.and allow for usual discrepancy in ages.

We have JOHN FORBES...still a bit of an old git.even though in 1871 he's now only ten years older than his wife.......he is a glass blower from Edinburgh on both censuses.....

We have is wife....somewhat younger than him (!)....but in both cases from Yoxall Staffs......but her name has changed ANN..or MARY ANN............your findings seem to support my suggestion about Mary Ann Dukes..........

!861 we have Alice..by 1871 she has moved on..or died......but Henry and John are on both...........so if i read you right........you are suggesting that this HENRY FORBES is not the Henry Frederick Forbes..glass maker born 1851/2...who married Mary Ann Corbett in 1872.......

...... so for your suggestion to be valid..you, or we, have to find him some parents..and the only way to do that, I suggest, is for our Poster to get the Marriage certificate.

............and i can't find the old goat in 1851 either......one suggestion is that he is still hiding in Scotland with his first wife!!....

EDIT......ah..have found your Axhall (!) lady.............strangely there is a Mary Ann Dukes borh Yoxall who goes right through to 1881 without marrying.....but clearly the Axhall Mary is of interest to us......So she has an illegitimate daughter in c1844,,when she was 15/16..I wonder if the Scotch Whiskey had got to her by then..or if Henry Frederick was another illegitimate child and we should be looking for him under Dukes?...then along came John O' Groats (forgive my humour) and married her in 1855 with her two children..thereby legitimizing the two children...don't forget John hunior didn't arrive till 1859........
...........and BrookWalls at Cromford is a herring of the enormously scarlet kind..and they were never there....but at Brook Walk in Derby..which is precisely where Mary Ann would have been when she gave birth to Henry (Frederick?? Dukes??)............I'm going looking!


Derek.

[Skoosh]

Many thanks for this guys, I have a note of the 1841 census, Rancliffe Street, St Peters, Nottingham,
John Forbes, 58, b.1783 Scotland.
Jane Forbes, 58, b.1783 Scotland.
John Forbes, 19, b.1822 Scotland.

Could this perhaps be him?

Derby marriage 1855, John Forbes & Mary Ann Dukes,
Birth, Alice Dukes 1850,
Henry Dukes 1852.

Death Birmingham, March quarter, 1880,
Mary Ann Forbes, 44, b. Birmingham, wife of John Forbes.

These Mary Ann's were known as Annie.

1891 census, Dudley,
Henry Frederick Forbes, 42, b. Brookwalls, Derby.
plus wife 7 kids.
I had a job finding this place, Brook Walk if it existed, might be the answer, did Derby make glass?
by 1900 the family are in Glasgow. Chance Brothers, Birmingham opened a glass factory in Glasgow, but whether HFF worked there, or some of the local glassworks, I couldn't say. 

PS, Scotch Whisky doesn't have an e!

Bests,

Skoosh.

[Derbysderek]

skoosh.if you Google "Brook Walk Derby"..you'll be led to Markeaton Brook and Weir....and a  photo that actually points to the street known as Brook Walk...........looking no doubt very different to what it did in 1851.when Mary Ann Dukes was lodging there .but extant nevertheless..........sorry about the Scotch..I ought to know better, having drunk gallons of the stuff........

Derek.

[spendlove]

Hi,

Civil Registration:-

Alice Lakin Dukes   Dec Q 1850 Derby 19 519
Henry Dukes   Dec Q 1852 Derby 7b 345

Evidence for this is that Mary Ann Dukes aged 22 born Axhall Staffs (per transcription)
 with her Daughter aged 7 MONTHS born Derby is on the
1851 Census  HO107; Piece: 2143; Folio: 689; Page: 21  Brook Walk, Derby. 

Suggest that this is the same  Mary Ann Dukes who married John Forbes:-
Dec Q 1855 Derby 7b 713.

After the marriage of 1855, the Duke children adopted the name Forbes.

1861 Census  RG 9; Piece: 2147; Folio: 98; Page: 25 Birmingham
Forbes John  Head  Mar  40    Glass Blower     Edinburgh
 "   Mary Ann Wife    "     30    Silk Ribbon Weaver   (transcript birth states Yeoville
"     Alice                dau   11                           Derby
"    Henry               son     9                           Derby
"    John                 son     1                           Derby

There is a Birth Registered June Q 1860 John Henry Forbes Birmingham 6d 187.

Henry, who later adds Frederick was born in Derby so suggest it was at Brook Walk, Derby.
Only by obtaining his birth registration certificate will you know all the information.

Still need to find John Henry Forbes in 1841 and 1851 Census.

Spendlove

[Skoosh]

Derek & Spendlove, that is absolutely superb news, I've had a cousin away out at this Brookwalls place, scratching her head and speculating whether John Forbes's horse had dropped dead here maybe?
He was maybe a bit "grey heided" but obviously still had a tilt in his kilt and swept Annie off her clogs
I assume she called Alice after Alice Husby her landlady, who must have doubled as a childminder as well. I notice that the Husby's had a couple of Irish lodgers and another Jock, going by the names.
 Henry Fred married Annie Corbett and had a daughter Louisa, Annie died young and he remarried another Annie, Edmunds this time. They had another eight kids, the last, my g't uncle Bill, was born in Glasgow and claimed he was the only Scotsman in the family. Will have to try searching in Edinburgh (Gods frozen people), and see what crops up.
Many thanks for this. I'm sure my cousin will be in Derby soon looking for the site of the action 

Bests,

Skoosh.