ASSISTANCE_RE._Annie_Maria_KIRBY_born_circa_1870-DEATH/MARRIAGE_DETAILS ???

[majm]

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,369703.0.html 

scroll through and find the links to Christ Church Cathedral’s images ….. I feel you will have success there with alternative spellings …..  And I suggest you go through the images on the Family Register  (covers 1820-1899) … There’s also Baptisms, Marriages, Burials from 1826.   I have not yet had the spare moments to look there myself for Sherden or variations, sorry. 

Cheers,  JM…..

[judb]

Not sure if you already have this - my brain is full   

Buried together at Catholic Cemetery Necropolis, Rookwood
John M SHERDEN, 19,   21/06/1917   SEC*M2*L**487   B
Reginald W SHERDEN, age unk,     18/08/1920   SEC*M2*L**487   B
http://www.catholiccemeteries.org.au/

Judith

[Neil Todd]

Just to add a little more to the mix I cannot find them on any census in England but did locate their marriage in 1854 in which his name is actually John SHERIDAN. All the rest of names are what has been either mistranscribed or taken down incorrectly from accented speech. I believe as all the others I have come across are of IRISH descent, my expectation is that he is too.

He wasn't born in Manchester and in fact probably wasn't in England until after the 1851 census.

Neil

[majm]

RE the 1889 birth cert for William SHERDEN, born at 62 Susan Street, CAMPERDOWN to John aged 22 and a boot maker.

From the Sands 1892 Sydney Suburban Directory for CAMPERDOWN
Susan street – West side
Newtown boundary to University street
56  William PAGE, baker
68 Frederick REES,
64 Wo;;oa, REOD
60 Robert MITCHAEL, van proprietor
62 John PULLEN
66 Reviver hotel, Dougal MCDONGALL
then Brown Street
70 Magnus PHILLIP, bottle dealer
72 William COURTNEY
64 W C  WEBB
76 R GARLICK, fuel merchant
Then Thomas Street
James J LESLIE, butcher

So, I then looked in same directory but for Susan St starting in NEWTOWN and although I found it, there’s NONE surnamed SHERDEN (or variations) and NONE listed as boot makers (or similar).

NEXT I tried Sands 1891 TRADE directory for Sydney 
BOOT and SHOE manufacturers, AND ALAS ….. (need a smilie face at RChat with a foot stamping thingy) …. From Sanderson to Swyny, not a ripple of a Sherden or variation ….

The Sands directories were closed for entries each October, so the 1892 one closed for entries in Oct 1891, and of course the 1891 directory closed for entries in Oct 1890. 


So, I am still searching, and fingers crossed that I will find something tangible soon, and that Irish suggestion from Neil makes a lot of good sense to me ..... 

Cheers,  JM

[Leeroy_2]

Hi JM, sorry about the delay getting back to you with your two questions from reply #37.

From that dc (or transcript of it) what does the “J” represent?
And where/when  was that John born (as per the dc)    (NSW BDM 17016/1924)

1) The 17016/1924 death cert. indicates his father as, William John SHERDEN. Now this is the first time I've seen his father's middle name as John, this is not on his marriage cert to Alice COOKSON in 1854 or any of the census records from 1841 and 1851 nor his death cert. I can't explain this further keeping in mind it was certified what appears predominantly by the Hospital Manager which may limit full knowledge of these details. Although it appears his son, William John SHERDEN b1889 assisted.

2) Unusually it lists his birth place as, Leichhardt, inconsistent with his birth certificate. This is also his place of marriage and I could only assume that's it a mix up. It doesn't have his date of birth but lists his age as 59. Appears to be one year out as he would have been 58.

[Leeroy_2]

Just to add a little more to the mix I cannot find them on any census in England but did locate their marriage in 1854 in which his name is actually John SHERIDAN. All the rest of names are what has been either mistranscribed or taken down incorrectly from accented speech. I believe as all the others I have come across are of IRISH descent, my expectation is that he is too.

He wasn't born in Manchester and in fact probably wasn't in England until after the 1851 census.

Neil

Thanks Neil, the marriage is for John William SHERDEN b1866 Newcastle, NSW parents, William SHERDEN circa 1829 with Alice Morris COOKSON circa 1831.

There are two census relating to William SHERDEN from 1841 with name spelt, 'SHIRDON' [sic] and 1851 name spelt, 'SHENTON' [sic].

Not sure if you already have this - my brain is full   

Buried together at Catholic Cemetery Necropolis, Rookwood
John M SHERDEN, 19,   21/06/1917   SEC*M2*L**487   B
Reginald W SHERDEN, age unk,     18/08/1920   SEC*M2*L**487   B
http://www.catholiccemeteries.org.au/

Judith

Thanks Judith, the John Morris SHERDEN burial is another sibling, his birth name appears to be Jack. I've attached both his birth and death certificate.

I haven't ordered any certificates for Reginald W. SHERDEN but I believe that to a sibling of John Morris SHERDEN. Both these two brothers are sons of John William SHERDEN b1866 and his second wife, Annie Maria Tomah SHERDEN Nee BRADFORD.

Lee

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[Leeroy_2]

RE the 1889 birth cert for William SHERDEN, born at 62 Susan Street, CAMPERDOWN to John aged 22 and a boot maker.

From the Sands 1892 Sydney Suburban Directory for CAMPERDOWN
Susan street – West side
Newtown boundary to University street
56  William PAGE, baker
68 Frederick REES,
64 Wo;;oa, REOD
60 Robert MITCHAEL, van proprietor
62 John PULLEN
66 Reviver hotel, Dougal MCDONGALL
then Brown Street
70 Magnus PHILLIP, bottle dealer
72 William COURTNEY
64 W C  WEBB
76 R GARLICK, fuel merchant
Then Thomas Street
James J LESLIE, butcher

So, I then looked in same directory but for Susan St starting in NEWTOWN and although I found it, there’s NONE surnamed SHERDEN (or variations) and NONE listed as boot makers (or similar).

NEXT I tried Sands 1891 TRADE directory for Sydney 
BOOT and SHOE manufacturers, AND ALAS ….. (need a smilie face at RChat with a foot stamping thingy) …. From Sanderson to Swyny, not a ripple of a Sherden or variation ….

The Sands directories were closed for entries each October, so the 1892 one closed for entries in Oct 1891, and of course the 1891 directory closed for entries in Oct 1890. 


So, I am still searching, and fingers crossed that I will find something tangible soon, and that Irish suggestion from Neil makes a lot of good sense to me ..... 

Cheers,  JM

Thanks JM, that's great work going over those records ! Amazing.. Is there a link to look through the sands records ? I've seen them through Ancestry but only for relatives names not the ability to search streets.

Secondly, the links you've added for me are great re. 'Baptisms, Marriages, Burials, Christ Church Cathedral, Newcastle', unfortunately our family is born, William - 1865, John William -1866 and Elizabeth 1868. It appears the baptism records finish 1861,
1826 – 1837 Baptisms, Marriages, Burials
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605008173551/
1837 – 1838 Baptisms, Marriages, Burials
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157604433014652/
1839 – 1861 Baptisms, Marriages, Burials
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605132739200/

Although the family records appear they may assist,
1820 – 1899 Family Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606066769147/ 1820 – 1899 Family Register

I'll work my way through that family register in search of some documents that may help

Lee

[Leeroy_2]

Just to add a little more to the mix I cannot find them on any census in England but did locate their marriage in 1854 in which his name is actually John SHERIDAN. All the rest of names are what has been either mistranscribed or taken down incorrectly from accented speech. I believe as all the others I have come across are of IRISH descent, my expectation is that he is too.

He wasn't born in Manchester and in fact probably wasn't in England until after the 1851 census.

Neil

Neil you are correct that the SHERDEN line comes from Ireland. I'll attach the 1841 census where it's listed as, 'SHIRTON'. This document indicates James SHERDEN circa 1791 and Catherine SHERDEN Nee DONOGHUE circa 1791 (these two people [James, Catherine] are John William SHERDEN b1866 Newcastle, NSW paternal grandparents).

Unfortunately although the 1851 census has been located by a member on another forum in reply 3, 'http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=641882.new%3btopicseen#new' I do not have a physical copy of it as I have recently cancelled my paid membership with Ancestry.

Attached 1841 census

Lee

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[Leeroy_2]

 Good evening researchers, I'm back again, and still researching this mystery. Which remains unsolved. There was some excellent discussion back in 2016 & I really appreciate the efforts of all users. To refresh my story, I'm writing about Annie Maria KIRBY. She was first identified in my family tree as the wife to my G G Grandfather, John SHERDEN b.1866 in Newcastle, NSW. She is identified on the birth certificates of, William John SHERDEN (b.1889 (11991/1889)) & then Alice Morris SHERDEN (b. 1890 (25572/1890)). Alice passed away in 1891, so there's another mention of her then (616/1891). On the BC of Wm. SHERDEN, there is listed marriage of, 29/07/1887 in Sydney (aged 19 YO, born in Sydney) & the BC of Alice SHERDEN lists the marriage of, 27/07/1886 in Sydney (aged 21 YO, born in Sydney).

There was no further mention of Annia Maria KIRBY, until John SHERDEN, remarries in 1897 (1272/1987), where he lists his conjugal status as widower.

Possible updates (I'm keen for your thoughts ?)
- I have located an Annia Maria KIRBY marrying a William Henry READ in 19 Jul. 1886 (1239/1886). I have located the Sydney, Anglican Parish Register record, which lists her birth as NSW, her father as Edward KIRBY and mother as Mary Ann ROBINSON and her age as 21 years of age (I have not been able to locate Edward and Mary's marriage certificate, or any further details involving Edward and Mary.
- I have located a number of criminal records, which may assist with Annie Maria KIRBY, firstly a Australia, Gaol Description and Entrance Book record, which lists a Annie KIRBY (ALIAS READ) with an offence listed of, Prostitute & Riotous on the 26 October 1885. Which appears to have been 'disposed of 10 November 1885.
- I then locate a NSW Police Gazette record, dated 11/08/1886, which lists her wanted, in relation to 'deserting her infant male child, aged 6 months'. She is described as, about 20 YO, red cheeks, fair complexion, light sandy hair, one front tooth deficient, dressed in dark clothes and hat.
- I searched for any records connected to approx. Feb. 1886 (which is about six months before the wanted gazette post) via NSW BDM, I have located a birth registration of a William H Sheridan from the 29/02/1886 (which I have confirmed was a leap year). This child's parent's names are, William & Annie, with a Glebe registration (7595/1886).
- I then located another NSW Police Gazette (which pre-dated their wedding) from the 30/06/1886, where Annie READ, was charged, on warrant, with deserting her infant male child, by Detectives CLOUGH and ROCHLAX. Ordered to be taken to the Benevolent Asylum.

I wonder if this marriage to William Henry READ could be connected ?

Lee