Author Topic: Searching John Dyast alias John Cousins vanished after 1856 Bathurst pls help!!!  (Read 11434 times)

Offline majm

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Re: Searching John Dyast alias John Cousins vanished after 1856 Bathurst pls help!!!
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday 19 March 13 12:09 GMT (UK) »
Hi there,

An alternative spelling for Dyast

12 February 1855, Carcoar, John DYUST and Emma BRIANT

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTZZ-PM5
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTZ8-V25

NSW BDM commenced civil registrations for marriage in 1856,  so I am somewhat confused that you have a marriage certificate and that it states that he was from Seven Oaks, Kent.  …… It is possible that the parish register for 1855 is extant, and it may be worth contacting the church.   May I ask for the name of the clergyman  from that 1855 Early Church Record.

On John & Emma's marriage certificate it states that he is from Seven Oaks, Kent, UK,

Cheers,  JM
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Online ShaunJ

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Re: Searching John Dyast alias John Cousins vanished after 1856 Bathurst pls help!!!
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday 19 March 13 15:04 GMT (UK) »
Just going back to Neil's posts about the deaths in NSW in 1860, I am looking at these references on Ancestry:

John Cousins, Camperdown, Newtown : V18609023 1228 ( = 122B?)
John Dyson, Camberdown, Newtown: V18606869 122A
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Offline iforani

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Re: Searching John Dyast alias John Cousins vanished after 1856 Bathurst pls help!!!
« Reply #29 on: Tuesday 19 March 13 22:15 GMT (UK) »
Thanks, Shaun. That Michael could be a sibling, or a cousin. In any case he would have been known to John. JM, I don't have the marriage certificate; this came from a genealogy site that I copied, so this may have been an errror (that it was on his marriage certificate). It's also in the Police Gazette, thanks for clarifying this. Thanks Shaun, this does look like more than just coincidence doesn't it, combined with the fact that Mr Cousens got his seaman's ticket. Does a b mean that the original has been altered? Great detective work, guys. Will have to order this certificate to put this one to bed.  :)
McKay (Kildare, Ireland), Aldred (Manchester), Smith, Cooper (Kent), Howlett, Bodill, Atkins (Northamptonshire), Smart (UK, Africa), Brown, Bryant, Dixon, Walton

Offline majm

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Re: Searching John Dyast alias John Cousins vanished after 1856 Bathurst pls help!!!
« Reply #30 on: Tuesday 19 March 13 23:09 GMT (UK) »
Does a b mean that the original has been altered? Great detective work, guys. Will have to order this certificate to put this one to bed.  :)

No, it does not mean that there has been an alteration.   Please do not order a certificate from NSW BDM for that 1855 marriage expecting to get lots of family history information.  Civil registrations commence in NSW in 1856, so PRE 1856 is for Early Church Records, ie parish registers.    Church of England's NSW parish registers do not usually include the name of the English Parish  that the groom or the bride CAME from before arriving in NSW, or even the NSW Parish either resided in prior to a month before the NSW marriage.   The requirement was to note the parish that the groom or the bride were usually residing in AT THE TIME of the marriage ....

At the following links you can read about the "V" (representing Volume) references for Parish records held by NSW BDM for Baptisms, Marriages and Burials

http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/short-guide-4/short-guide-4 


http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/short-guide-4/volumes-1-123-1/volumes-1-123 

If you want copy of the 1855 marriage, you may find it a cheaper option to order a transcript  :) ...  May I note that if you order directly from NSW BDM you will be ordering an Early Church Record, and thus you will NOT receive a digitised image of the parish record.  Hence I again suggest ordering an Official Transcription.... when considering any NSW BDM index entry in the "V" series.

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/familyHistoryCertificates.htm
" 1788 - 1855 Converted to a computerised format from Registry transcriptions of Early Church Records.
Transcriptions only (computer generated).
We don't hold the original handwritten versions.  "

Cheers,  JM 
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline Neil Todd

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Re: Searching John Dyast alias John Cousins vanished after 1856 Bathurst pls help!!!
« Reply #31 on: Tuesday 19 March 13 23:25 GMT (UK) »
Do you think JM that either of the DC's would be more informative?

Neil
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Offline majm

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Re: Searching John Dyast alias John Cousins vanished after 1856 Bathurst pls help!!!
« Reply #32 on: Tuesday 19 March 13 23:40 GMT (UK) »
Do you think JM that either of the DC's would be more informative?

Neil

I know that civil registrations have more opportunities for finding family history information, as there were more questions to be answered .... Even in the 1800s government administrators wanted to keep themselves busy  :) pushing paperwork, so there's lots more questions to be answered when registering bdm events  :)  Of course the family history info found on a dc is only as reliable as the informant's own knowledge, and as Emma Dyast was no longer living with her lawful husband, John, it is entirely possible that the chap who died in 1860 was actually her husband but the informant was not aware that John was married (assuming of course it was the elusive John Dyast/Cousins death).    On the other hand, I would not expect to find ANY information on the burial record ("V") to help with finding the names of that chaps parents....   

Merlin has found the parish for that 1860 death burial .... so that should lead to a headstone or at least a cemetery list which may help   :)

But if trying to avoid providing bag loads of pennies towards the NSW government's budget, I would go for the civil death transcription ....  it could eliminate that chap, thus giving confidence that John was still living when the 1871 searching was occuring across all the antipodean colonies.... and it is possible that IF it is for Iforani's chap, that it could give details as to when married, who married to, names of children of the marriage, plus his age, place of birth, names of his parents (including nee name of mum) and it will certainly give cause of death, and place of burial as well as his address and occupation in 1860, and length of time in NSW  (helping to check the arrival details  :)  The "V" (Early Church Record) is only the equivalent of the English burial order, so will NOT have any information about cause of death, nor any of the responses to all those questions on the death cert  :) .

I hope I am making sense, it is not nearly as complicated as it first seems.

Cheers,  JM

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Offline majm

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Re: Searching John Dyast alias John Cousins vanished after 1856 Bathurst pls help!!!
« Reply #33 on: Tuesday 19 March 13 23:44 GMT (UK) »
I am actually fascinated that there's apparently an English address for the groom (and the address is a former address, not the then current address) on a NSW BDM record for Carcoar's Church of England 1855 parish register of marriage.

It will be several months before I can get to Bathurst to check if the Diocese Archivist has that register ....   :'(

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline Neil Todd

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Re: Searching John Dyast alias John Cousins vanished after 1856 Bathurst pls help!!!
« Reply #34 on: Wednesday 20 March 13 00:01 GMT (UK) »
It is interesting and to me signifies that he had no permanent address at that time of his marriage. I wonder what he worked at. Prospector seemed a common enough term.

I wonder if he made application for a miners licence and if this can be found ???

Neil
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Offline majm

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Re: Searching John Dyast alias John Cousins vanished after 1856 Bathurst pls help!!!
« Reply #35 on: Wednesday 20 March 13 00:21 GMT (UK) »
Well, I think his two daughters grew up in the district  :) where John married Emma  :)

In 1874 a Susan DYEST married Albert E LUCK .  This was registered at Carcoar and NSW BDM Ref 2105.   In 1875 Mary DYEST married Edward H WILSON, this also was registered at Carcoar and NSW BDM Ref #2226.

Those two reference numbers are CIVIL registrations.   The clergy recorded the names of the parents of the bride and the groom on their local records.  It is possible the clergy did not forward that information to NSW BDM, so it is possible there are blanks on the NSW BDM records.   

If your pennies stretch to further transcriptions then you may well consider ordering those 1870s mcs… to then use the information (the name of the clergyman, the names of the witnesses, the denomination etc) to help search the parish register to determine the recorded names of the girls dad …. DYEST v DYAST v McKAY …. And also any note as to if he was known to be deceased at that time.

Here’s the link to a thread I did re blanks on NSW BDM marriage certs.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,546609.0.html

As the girls were NOT YET 21 when marrying, they would need consent to marry.   This would be noted on the marriage certs, and their father would be the usual name to be noted as giving permission.  If he was not available then their mum could give consent.... 

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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