Author Topic: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone  (Read 15288 times)

Offline apanderson

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Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
« Reply #18 on: Thursday 08 March 12 21:43 GMT (UK) »
Forfarian - Is this the same Ann Yorkston (nee Kincaid) who is listed in 1861 at Carron Park, as Head of Household, age 40, born c.1821 in Larbert (Field Labourer) with 16 year old son Alexander (Foundry Labourer)?

I found the death of a 75 year old Alexander Yorkston in Larbert in 1857 on SP. Mother's maiden surname Kerr. That would mean a huge age gap between he and his wife though - unless there's a mistransription somewhere?(I obviously don't know if Kerr was his mother's m.s. - it just came up on the index).

Anne

Offline apanderson

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Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
« Reply #19 on: Thursday 08 March 12 21:52 GMT (UK) »
Couldn't help it - I had a peek!  ::)

This Alexander Yorkston, died 30th June 1857, was a widower, age 75 - no wife's name given and the son of John Yorkston and Janet Kerr. The informant was his grandson - Peter Lowe?

He's also buried in Larbert Old Parish Churchyard!

This one matches with the info which 'vinci' posted, but now I'm completely confused by all these Yorkstone's!

Anne  :)


Offline vinci

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Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
« Reply #20 on: Thursday 08 March 12 22:54 GMT (UK) »
How can you be sure that these are the correct parents for Alexander Y who died in 1850? What evidence do you have?

asks Forfarian.....

The primary research was done by my first cousin at Register House in Edinburgh before the age of the internet. I have every confidence in the quality of what he passed on to me, but cannot quote chapter and verse without going back to him. I will see what he has to say.

Vinci

Offline kirkmichael

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Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
« Reply #21 on: Thursday 08 March 12 23:57 GMT (UK) »
In my own tree I've come across several variants on YORKSTON[E], all in the Edinburgh area extending out to West Lothian, including the dropping of the "K" and the "K" & "T".
I have an Alexander Yorkston b 1814 in Larbert, but he married Catherine (Kitty)
[PH/F]AIR

ibi, if you are still there, can we compare notes? I too have this Alexander Yorkston in my tree but with a bit of a question mark.

I definitely have Janet Yorkston, married in Larbert on 14 November 1819 to Peter Hogg, had two sons James b 1820 and John b 1823/4, then died before 1826 because Peter then married Margaret Russell. I have been told that her parents were John Yorkston and Janet Kerr, but I have yet to find any evidence to confirm this.


I'm still here but under the moniker of 'kirkmichael' for some time as ibi was forced off the board a few years by the continuing abuse from a 'lady' from Australia, - I use the term 'lady' advisedly <sad g>.

My cousin 'vinci' nearly sums up the results of our joint research on our
YOR[K]S[T]ON[E] ancestry.

I'll freely admit that, given developments in access to the Scottish records since my original research that it could be time for me and 'vinci' to re-visit this line, but my strong memory is that the substantial efforts put into this research at New Register House in Edinburgh would make me unlikely to believe that the info as posted here by 'vinci' is incorrect.

Please feel free to contact me via PM.

Orraverybest

Kirkmichael, previously known as ibi, never mind other monikers before that, due to 'attacks' from the same source ! <sad g>


Offline Forfarian

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Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
« Reply #22 on: Friday 09 March 12 17:23 GMT (UK) »
I don't have any evidence either way other than what I have already listed above, but since lgardner's information conflicts with that of vinci/ibi/kirkmichael, one of them has to be wrong, because the Catherine Fair family and the Ann Donaldson family overlap. There must therefore have been two Alexander Ys born in 1813/1814/1815, and it is a question of which one married whom.

As for the Alexander Y who died in 1857 aged 75, he is far too old to be either of the ones born in 1813/1814/1815. He must be the one in the 1851 census in Larbert Village, aged 69. So he was born 1781/2, assuming his age in the census is accurate, or 1782/3, if his age at death is accurate. This doesn't quite fit with the son of John Yorkston and Janet Kerr, who was baptised in 1785, but it's possible.

The 1841 census has in Larbert Village Alx Y, 55; Ann Y, 55 and Janet Y, 15. These look like Alexander Y and Anne Kincaid, so this would fit with Anne Kincaid's husband being the son of John Y and Janet Kerr.

Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Forfarian

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Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
« Reply #23 on: Friday 09 March 12 17:28 GMT (UK) »
Is this the same Ann Yorkston (nee Kincaid) who is listed in 1861 at Carron Park, as Head of Household, age 40, born c.1821 in Larbert (Field Labourer) with 16 year old son Alexander (Foundry Labourer)?

I think you have your Annes mixed up! I think this Ann Y must be Ann(e) Donaldson, not Ann(e) Kincaid. The 1841 census records an Ann Y who is the same age as the Alexander who seems to be the one who died in 1857. It looks as if Ann Kincaid died between 1841 and 1851.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline apanderson

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Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
« Reply #24 on: Friday 09 March 12 17:33 GMT (UK) »
 ;D

I don't think it's just the Ann/Anne's I'm mixed up with!!  ::)

The 1861 Census info was from a transcription, so it's anybody's guess (I guess!!)

Anne

P.S I think it's time I kept my nose out! Sorry!

Offline vinci

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Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
« Reply #25 on: Friday 09 March 12 19:36 GMT (UK) »
Forfarian writes

"The 1841 census has in Larbert Village Alx Y, 55; Ann Y, 55 and Janet Y, 15. These look like Alexander Y and Anne Kincaid, so this would fit with Anne Kincaid's husband being the son of John Y and Janet Kerr."

Kirkmichael and I  have no record of Janet Yorkston age 15 at 1841, ie born c 1826.
Is she a relative acting as servant in the household? For children of Alexander Yorkston and Anne Kincaid we only have Alexander Yorkston born 23.5.1814 and John Yorkston born 1811
 
I am interested in who is the death witness for Alexander in 1857 as posted above, as a daughter of Alexander Yorkston and Ann Kincaid must have married a (?) Lowe (?) to produce grandson Peter Lowe (?) the death witness. We have daughters Marion b/c 20.1.1781 Falkirk; Agnes b/c 17.11.1776 Falkirk and Janet b/c 22.12.1793 Falkirk.

Our record shows the latter Janet marries Peter Hogg 14.11.1819, Larbert, Stirling, but the record only shows children James and John, two sons who would not produce Peter Lowe (?).

We have no further information on Marion Yorkston b 1781 or Agnes Yorkston b 1776 and if they survived/married/produced children etc.

Alexander Yorkston who died 25.6.1850 recorded at St. Cuthberts Edinburgh is a "practical engineer". According to our record he pre-deceased his father also Alexander Yorkston ( in similar trade as Iron Caster) who died 30.6.1857 at Stenhousmuir, buried Parish Churchyard of Larbert and whose death cert. gives parents as John Yorkston and Janet Kerr.

Vinci 

Offline Forfarian

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Re: 1851/1861/71/81 census look up please - Yorkstone
« Reply #26 on: Saturday 10 March 12 18:13 GMT (UK) »
"The 1841 census has in Larbert Village Alx Y, 55; Ann Y, 55 and Janet Y, 15. These look like Alexander Y and Anne Kincaid, so this would fit with Anne Kincaid's husband being the son of John Y and Janet Kerr."
Kirkmichael and I  have no record of Janet Yorkston age 15 at 1841, ie born c 1826.

I take her to be the 26-year-old Janet Graham, who in the 1851 census is living in the same household as Alexander d 1857 and described as his daughter. There are also her husband Samuel Graham and two grandchildren. Samuel and Janet were married in Ross-shire in 1848. Their daughter is named Ann, which is presumably after Ann Kincaid.
 
Quote
I am interested in who is the death witness for Alexander in 1857 as posted above, as a daughter of Alexander Yorkston and Ann Kincaid must have married a (?) Lowe (?) to produce grandson Peter Lowe (?) the death witness.

Indeed.

There is a Peter Low, son of James Low and Marion Yorkston, born 1840 in Larbert and baptised on 23 August 1840. The 1851 census lists in Stenhousemuir a family consisting of James Lowe, 34; wife Marion, 32; and son Peter, 10; all born in Larbert.

Quote
Our record shows the latter Janet marries Peter Hogg 14.11.1819, Larbert, Stirling, but the record only shows children James and John, two sons who would not produce Peter Lowe (?).

Yes. Peter Hogg married Margaret Russell in 1826. Therefore this Janet Y must have died between the birth of her son John in 1822/4 and her widower's remarriage in 1826. In 1841 Peter and Margaret's household included John H, aged 19, and Peter's sons by Margaret, Peter and George. There is no daughter in the household in either census. (I also believe that Janet was the daughter of John Y and Janet Kerr, but I still need proof.)

Quote
Alexander Yorkston who died 25.6.1850 recorded at St. Cuthberts Edinburgh is a "practical engineer". According to our record he pre-deceased his father also Alexander Yorkston ( in similar trade as Iron Caster) who died 30.6.1857 at Stenhousmuir, buried Parish Churchyard of Larbert and whose death cert. gives parents as John Yorkston and Janet Kerr.

This is exactly the point at issue. Which Alexander Y was the son of Alexander Y and Ann Kincaid? Did he stay in Larbert and marry Ann Donaldson, or did he move to Edinburgh, marry Catherine Phair, and die there in 1850? And if he was the latter, who were the parents of the former?

The banns of Alexander Y and Catherine Phair were called in both Edinburgh St Cuthbert's and South Leith.

"Alexander Yorkstone, smith, residing in No 111 Pleasance, in this parish, and Catharine Phair, residing in Heriot's Buildings, Leith Walk in the parish of South Leith, daughter of the late John Phair, sculptor on Leith Walk, have been three times proclaimed in order to Marriage in the Parish Church of St Cuthbert's and no objections have been offered. Married on the twenty third day of April current by the Reverend James Scott, Minister of the Relief Congregation, Bread Street." [Edinburgh St Cuthbert's]

"1833, April. Alexander Yorkstone, smith, Pleasance, Edinburgh and Catherine Phair residing in the parish of South Leith and daughter of the late John Phair sculptor there, after proclamation of banns were married." [South Leith]


So there is no clue there to Alexander's parentage.

His death is recorded in the St Cuthbert's burials: "No 1180 1850, June 25. Yorkston, Alexander, Engineer, age 36 years, Steads Place, consumption."

Again, there is no clue to his parentage.

Given that there was another Alexander Y of almost exactly the same age in Larbert, you cannot assume that the one in Edinburgh married to Catherine Phair and who died in 1850 was the one born in Larbert. Which is why I am asking what other evidence there is either way.

Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.